Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Theskippingman 05-31-07, 07:56 PM	I've come to realize that, even in the clear-cut way that 3.5 edition's rules have come to explain grappling, it's still really complicated. It's still a full page of criss-crossing procedures, although very cleanly and technically explained. Pity, as it's one of my favorite combat maneuvers. Can anyone point me to a simplified variant version of the grappling rules on the internet? Or talk about constructing one here. Possibly, the best way to arrange the grappling procedure is as a numbered list. Theskippingman
Theskippingman 05-31-07, 11:35 PM	Darn, 0 replies, 4 views? Tough crowd...:weep:
Thomar_of_Uointer 06-01-07, 12:30 AM	You shouldn't bump your own post until 48 hours after your last post. (http://boards1.wizards.com/community_coc.php) There's really no good way to simplify grappling that doesn't make it better than normal attacks. I found that if you just memorize the way it works then it shouldn't be an issue.
Theskippingman 06-01-07, 01:32 AM	I'm not even looking for a change to the grapple rules themselves, as much as I am a very condensed way to sort them out on a reference sheet, more so than the way we see it in the Player's Handbook. I like the grapple rules more than most people, which says something about my memorization. It slows down things every time it comes up.
Soel Griffin 06-01-07, 04:30 AM	Here's a link to a third party variant that simplifies grappling. http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=15111&
Theskippingman 06-01-07, 02:09 PM	Cool. Although I'd have to pay for it, which is less cool. It's not the price (which is tiny), but the hassle of paying online. The document is seven pages. 7 pages to replace about one in the PHB seems a little suboptimal. Call it a complex way to do simple... But yes, the flavor of what Soel Griffin showed me is in the right ballpark: an abstract system that is slightly more complex than an attack roll.
Keyar81 06-02-07, 08:38 PM	I found some of the rules for dying, even in the UA variant i use a little hard to comprehend the way its explained. So i read, and re-read and digested the material, all the while making an easy to understand flowchart of how the process works. You might want to try to do the same for the grappling process. Heck some simple flowcharts can help people comprehend many of the combat processes or actions(and their steps). Its not so much that the processes are that complicated once you understand them, but the wording can sometimes be tricky in explaining them, and for some people all that text can confuse people at first.
Knightblde 06-06-07, 02:25 PM	I got your answer! I too strugled with the rules but was a fan. I decided that I would dig deep into them until I understood what was going on, then make a sheet to make it simple. In the end I I did two things. I combined all the rules from Rules of the game: All About Grappling and printed them out. Then I made an Excel spreadsheet that listed my options per condition. By condition I mean your placement in the grapple: Starting a grapple, Grappling, pinning, or pinned. When a grapple happens at my table, a dice takes the place of the miniatures. The minis are moved to the 'starting a grapple' section of the grapple resolution sheet. As the grapple progresses your mini is moved to the appropiate section. Each side of the sheet (left and right) has a place for a mini. This lets you know who is on your 'team' if there are more than two grapplers. I found that while we still reference the rules for the definitions of our options, we do not waste time trying to see what we can do each round. It makes it more fun, and also speeds up the process. Send me a PM and I will send you a copy as a .xls or .pdf if you would prefer. Happy Gaming!
Cheza 06-07-07, 08:29 AM	http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-Skills_Actions.pdf one page. :P Simplify: - No touch attack needed => disarm doesn't need to touch that weapon [included in the disarm check] - Never an opposed check. Intead use 10+ as a fixed DC. You might even compare the values and allow the winner to do some option without a check (draw a light weapon). Alternatively, you might use the first grapple check for whole turn, not for each action. Attacks however must be still rolled. This makes the number of attacks irrelevant, because you have only one chance per round to be the "winner".
Soel Griffin 06-08-07, 02:35 AM	Also might want to check the new Saga rules or Star Wars d20 which does away with a touch attack as well, and I think has more options grappling-wise like climbing an enemy (think I read that somewhere, anyways.) I was thinking of something similar to Cheza's suggestions and just having an increasing modifier for different goals (+5 over DC to damage,or to move with held opponent, +10 for a pin,) but grappling hasn't been a big focus as of late, so I haven't looked deeper. I still might check out that pdf I linked for another take on it all...
Werral 06-08-07, 06:41 PM	Posted this on another thread but I thought I'd see what you guys think; Each character/monster has a Grapple AC. Your grapple AC is your Touch AC+Str bonus+size bonus (bigger is better) To grapple: Roll to hit VS your opponents Grapple AC. If you hit you pin them and all further grapple rolls are at +2. Each round either opponent can make an attack roll: Improve hold: Make a grapple roll to add a +2 circumstance bonus to all further grapple rols and add a -2 circ. penalty to your opponentsl. These bonus/penalties can stack up to +6/-6. Throw: Make a grapple roll to treat your opponent as tripped. Attack: Make a grapple attack to inflict your normal unarmed/natural attack damage. Free Weapon: Make a grapple attack to free a dagger or similar. If you succeed you can make a weapon attack vs your opponents Grapple AC (it's easier for you to get to chinks in their armour, but it's easier for them to hold you back if they're strong/big)