Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Thurbane 12-17-05, 05:07 AM	Do any of you (DMs or players) use an Appearance or Comeliness score with your characters, or do you just use Charisma? Seen a few variant sourcebooks that use Appearance/Comeliness, and was just curious how widely they get used. Thanks - T
lord_blackfang 12-17-05, 07:42 AM	Using a score based on physical attractiveness is utterly stupid in any setting where one has to deal with dozens of intelligent species.
starfire311 12-17-05, 10:45 AM	Using a score based on physical attractiveness is utterly stupid in any setting where one has to deal with dozens of intelligent species. exactly, I let my players decide how they look, and I decide for the NPCs if they like how the players look, that simple
FWHGilby 12-17-05, 12:47 PM	Using a score based on physical attractiveness is utterly stupid in any setting where one has to deal with dozens of intelligent species. So you don't pay any attention to the hot girls in magazine, on tv, and in movies. Pa-sha!
starfire311 12-17-05, 04:03 PM	So you don't pay any attention to the hot girls in magazine, on tv, and in movies. Pa-sha! That isnt the point the point is, that with dozens of intelligent races, an orc may find a female orc attractive, while being repulsed by what most humans would considor a good-looking human female. Comliness does not transcend racial bounderies in D&D or at least I don't think it would, whereas all other stats do.
lord_blackfang 12-17-05, 07:20 PM	So you don't pay any attention to the hot girls in magazine, on tv, and in movies. Pa-sha! I probably wouldn't pay attention to hot human girls if I were a Dwarf, no.
Rogue Shadows 12-18-05, 09:46 AM	Depends on your tastes. Jabba is a Hutt. Hutts are aesexual hermaphrodites. He still had the hots for Leia. And that twi'lek. Comes down to the individual DM. I'd think that, since humans, elves, half-elves, and halflings have pretty much the same appearence, Comlieness can be used between them. Similar between dwarves and gnomes, and orcs with many of the goblinoids. And surely not every half-orc is the product of rape. Apart from being depressing in what is supposed to be a fun game, it's not statistically possible considering the numbers they appear in. You could argue that, potentially, any humanoid could be attracted to any other humanoid based on looks, especially the humanoids that can reproduce to create viable offspring. ---------------------------- As far as comlieness goes, I think it's useful to distinguish between force of personality VS physical appearence, and certain skills could be useful if looked at from that angle. Using Bluff to seduce, for example. Seduction depends on physical attractiveness, not force of personality. But, conversely, the greatest Sorcerer in the land might not be the best lookin'. I've been thinking of trying to re-tool D&D to use the attributes of a game called Vampre: The Masquerade. Those were divided into Physical (Strength, Dexterity, Stamina), Mental (Intelligence, Perception, Wits), and Social (Appearence, Manipulation, Charisma) divisions. It would take awhile, though...
Nor'Morgwae 12-18-05, 03:17 PM	I don't use Comliness/appearence attributes. I made a few feats to do that job, here is a rough idea of what they do. If I can find where I saved them I will post them. They are only available at level 1. Beautiful: increases initial reaction by one step, only applies to you species and very similar species. Unearthly Beauty:Requires Beautiful and Cha 17: Same as beauty but applies to all ceatures. Ugly:Flaw: Lowers initial reaction by 1 or 2 steps (don't remember which) with your species and similar species.
ConradBland 12-18-05, 07:34 PM	Appearance should be a backstory choice for a player, since Charisma affects NPC reactions. History has shown us plenty of ugly people(Hitler) with high Charisma scores, so it is best left to the player to decide whether he is any more or less attractive thantwo miles of mud fence.
darkwarrior42 12-19-05, 04:20 AM	I reason like this: Orcs might be repulsed by a human female who is very beautiful... but what if that's because Orcs hate weakness, and see beauty as a sign of a pampered creature too weak and lazy to do anything dangerous? There is also a bit of in-game evidence for this... look at the Nymph. She's not described as a shape-shifter, but all of her abilities are based on being incredibly beautiful. I generally assume in my games that beauty is universal, but not universally liked. Some creatures actually enjoy being ugly, but they still know what beauty is. That said, I generally let players pick their appearance score, but anything higher than 15 requires a good reason and the understanding that members of their own species will probably act a bit differently towards them (at least initially.) Certain skills may also use appearance as their key ability, but the effectiveness will vary much more than it would using Charisma so this is a risky proposition (one guard may be very open to persuasion by an attractive female, but another may be married and greatly offended, -4/+4 to the DC of the check as opposed to +0 for a straight Charisma check.)
Rowan_Whispercloak 12-19-05, 05:03 AM	I generally try to avoid it at all cost as one of the groups I game with (sometimes as a DM other times as a player) has a couple of people who are overly fond of a certain independantly published source book all about the naughty bits of DND. Things that should just be part of the "scene fades to black... Next morning..." at least for most gaming groups.
Millennium 12-19-05, 08:04 AM	I go back and forth on this. On one hand, it handily dispels the myth that Charisma is all about appearance, because there's another stat that is all about appearance. However, as others have noted, when dealing with so many sentient species, this can be just plain silly. Generally, though, I just have the characters look like whatever their player wants. They can be supermodels with a Charisma of 3, for all I care, as long as they can explain their Charisma being that low despite the looks. If Paris Hilton can do it, why can't my players? :D
darkwarrior42 12-19-05, 10:12 AM	As regards that certain published source, it's perfectly fine so long as you don't go overboard with it. Of course, not going overboard with it is kinda difficult... *rolls eyes*