Domain Wizards [Archive] - Wizards Community

Domain Wizards [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ZiggZagg
01-22-08, 11:25 PM I have heard a few people talk about this variant, and how broken it is. What exactly is bad about it?
mtbOgre
01-24-08, 01:23 AM I have heard a few people talk about this variant, and how broken it is. What exactly is bad about it?
Here's the Link (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizardVarian tDomainWizard)

The wizard picks a theme and gets to add the best spells from this theme to their book each time he gains a new level plus he gets to cast them each once per day for free. The cost? Giving up specialization.

Since that's not enough they give you a bonus +1 to caster level whenever casting these spells.

By comparison with specialization you give up 2 schools of magic to get one additional spell slot per day and on top of that you don't learn spells at a faster rate so if you want to take advantage of that slot you have to make sure you learn one spell from your school at each level.

In summary... Domain caster gets better benefits than a specialist with non of the penalties of specialization.

Broken? It's a significant power boost to what is arguably the most powerful class in the game... draw your own conclusion.
Gabriel Dian
01-24-08, 07:53 AM I don't believe it's broken. I believe the Specialist Wizard is just #$%@.
If you want to use it, then you've probably reached that conclusion yourself. If you're giving up two schools (which can't include Divination), you might as well get something nifty for it.

As for overpowered:
The +1 to caster level is basically more significant at lower levels, since in 3.5 99% of the spells have a damage cap. At higher levels, it just means you'll have an easier time overcoming SR - which for any serious wizard shouldn't be too hard anyway.
The fact that you automatically know these spells is nice, but not that amazing (just saves you a few bucks), also considering that if these spells were that good, you'd choose to know them anyway when you level up. If you aren't a nitpicking DM - that's not what's going to bother you.
The true power of this variant is the bonus spell slot. It makes your wizard cooler - a tad more powerful with a nice flavour added.

For me, it works perfectly, since it's cut down the "What are you throwing at us, we can't handle it!" situations, since your wizard is more flexible, it also made treasure generation easier (I like the PCs to actually use the treasure they earn, not just sell it off), and it does slightly lower the "we rest now" every five minutes routine.

But that's just my take on it. YMMV.
Totentanz
01-24-08, 10:40 AM If you allow Domain Wizards, then there are Domain Wizards and Specialist Wizards. Nobody is going to play a "regular" Wizard. Specialist Wizards certainly have a place; Conjurers are scary. Also, they aren't the "best" spells of a given level or school, some of them are definitely sub-par.

Overall, a cool but not broken class feature.
mtbOgre
01-24-08, 01:15 PM I don't believe it's broken. I believe the Specialist Wizard is just #$%@.
If you want to use it, then you've probably reached that conclusion yourself. If you're giving up two schools (which can't include Divination), you might as well get something nifty for it.

As for overpowered:
The +1 to caster level is basically more significant at lower levels, since in 3.5 99% of the spells have a damage cap. At higher levels, it just means you'll have an easier time overcoming SR - which for any serious wizard shouldn't be too hard anyway.
The fact that you automatically know these spells is nice, but not that amazing (just saves you a few bucks), also considering that if these spells were that good, you'd choose to know them anyway when you level up. If you aren't a nitpicking DM - that's not what's going to bother you.
The true power of this variant is the bonus spell slot. It makes your wizard cooler - a tad more powerful with a nice flavour added.

For me, it works perfectly, since it's cut down the "What are you throwing at us, we can't handle it!" situations, since your wizard is more flexible, it also made treasure generation easier (I like the PCs to actually use the treasure they earn, not just sell it off), and it does slightly lower the "we rest now" every five minutes routine.

But that's just my take on it. YMMV.

Sounds to me like you are someone who doesn't play low the levels much. At low levels getting an extra spell per level for free is very nice. At 5th level that's worth 900 GP or roughly 18% of the characters wealth... that's non-trivial. As for the extra slot, it's a 30-50% increase in your highest level spells and a 25-33% increase in your second highest level spells.

The extra spell is almost equivalent to having a pearl of power for each level of casting... for a regular wizard that would cost 140,000gp at 15th level.

I didn't say domain wizard was broken, but seeing as the wizard is arguably the most powerful class in the game what does this variant class feature add to the game as a whole? If I'm going to bring in variant features I'm bringing in the ones that either bring the players more into balance or are more fun for RP purposes. This fits into neither of those categories.
mtbOgre
01-24-08, 01:23 PM If you allow Domain Wizards, then there are Domain Wizards and Specialist Wizards. Nobody is going to play a "regular" Wizard. Specialist Wizards certainly have a place; Conjurers are scary. Also, they aren't the "best" spells of a given level or school, some of them are definitely sub-par.

Overall, a cool but not broken class feature.

Again, what does this add to the game? More power for the wiz. If you are a player and your DM lets it in, more power to you. As a DM I don't see the need to give the wiz more power at no cost.

If domain wiz was allowed you would only have 1 type of wizard, domain wizards. No one would specialize because this steals all it's thunder and has none of the downside.
Totentanz
01-24-08, 03:00 PM Well, the extra spell slot for a Domain Wizard is for that one spell, or for another spell from the Domain that is metamagicked. That is a big difference in power level.

What does it add? It allows Wizards the option to be something special without giving up two schools of magic, and risk not being able to fill their role.

Really though, I'm not interested in arguing with you. It's in a book full of OPTIONS after all.
mtbOgre
01-24-08, 03:39 PM Well, the extra spell slot for a Domain Wizard is for that one spell, or for another spell from the Domain that is metamagicked. That is a big difference in power level.

What does it add? It allows Wizards the option to be something special without giving up two schools of magic, and risk not being able to fill their role.

Really though, I'm not interested in arguing with you. It's in a book full of OPTIONS after all.

Apologies, I didn't want to be confrontational, I guess it's just my nature. The OP asked if it was 'broken'. What exactly is broken?

Domain Wiz= Regular Wiz + Domains

My opinion is Core Wiz is plenty strong and doesn't need an extra edge and I won't give this to a player in my game.

As I said, if your DM lets you have it go for it. There is no downside, which makes it a no-brainer upgrade.
Gabriel Dian
01-24-08, 04:31 PM Sounds to me like you are someone who doesn't play low the levels much. At low levels getting an extra spell per level for free is very nice. At 5th level that's worth 900 GP or roughly 18% of the characters wealth... that's non-trivial. As for the extra slot, it's a 30-50% increase in your highest level spells and a 25-33% increase in your second highest level spells.

You're joking, right? A low level wizard is a pain to his group and to his DM (until about level 5, when he can start doing things). Until then the group has to carry them, and the DM has to make sure they don't drop dead at every second encounter.

As for low level games - I'm running one now. And I've found the Domain Wizard to be quite OK for me. No need to change the party ECL or anything.

Also, I agree that the choice of spells isn't close to 100% optimized for all the domains. But once again, this isn't an exact science. Talk to your players, let them know you want to try it out - and if it doesn't work for you, have them switch to a specialist/non-specialist wizard.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ZiggZagg 01-22-08, 11:25 PM	I have heard a few people talk about this variant, and how broken it is. What exactly is bad about it?
mtbOgre 01-24-08, 01:23 AM	I have heard a few people talk about this variant, and how broken it is. What exactly is bad about it? Here's the Link (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizardVarian tDomainWizard) The wizard picks a theme and gets to add the best spells from this theme to their book each time he gains a new level plus he gets to cast them each once per day for free. The cost? Giving up specialization. Since that's not enough they give you a bonus +1 to caster level whenever casting these spells. By comparison with specialization you give up 2 schools of magic to get one additional spell slot per day and on top of that you don't learn spells at a faster rate so if you want to take advantage of that slot you have to make sure you learn one spell from your school at each level. In summary... Domain caster gets better benefits than a specialist with non of the penalties of specialization. Broken? It's a significant power boost to what is arguably the most powerful class in the game... draw your own conclusion.
Gabriel Dian 01-24-08, 07:53 AM	I don't believe it's broken. I believe the Specialist Wizard is just #$%@. If you want to use it, then you've probably reached that conclusion yourself. If you're giving up two schools (which can't include Divination), you might as well get something nifty for it. As for overpowered: The +1 to caster level is basically more significant at lower levels, since in 3.5 99% of the spells have a damage cap. At higher levels, it just means you'll have an easier time overcoming SR - which for any serious wizard shouldn't be too hard anyway. The fact that you automatically know these spells is nice, but not that amazing (just saves you a few bucks), also considering that if these spells were that good, you'd choose to know them anyway when you level up. If you aren't a nitpicking DM - that's not what's going to bother you. The true power of this variant is the bonus spell slot. It makes your wizard cooler - a tad more powerful with a nice flavour added. For me, it works perfectly, since it's cut down the "What are you throwing at us, we can't handle it!" situations, since your wizard is more flexible, it also made treasure generation easier (I like the PCs to actually use the treasure they earn, not just sell it off), and it does slightly lower the "we rest now" every five minutes routine. But that's just my take on it. YMMV.
Totentanz 01-24-08, 10:40 AM	If you allow Domain Wizards, then there are Domain Wizards and Specialist Wizards. Nobody is going to play a "regular" Wizard. Specialist Wizards certainly have a place; Conjurers are scary. Also, they aren't the "best" spells of a given level or school, some of them are definitely sub-par. Overall, a cool but not broken class feature.
mtbOgre 01-24-08, 01:15 PM	I don't believe it's broken. I believe the Specialist Wizard is just #$%@. If you want to use it, then you've probably reached that conclusion yourself. If you're giving up two schools (which can't include Divination), you might as well get something nifty for it. As for overpowered: The +1 to caster level is basically more significant at lower levels, since in 3.5 99% of the spells have a damage cap. At higher levels, it just means you'll have an easier time overcoming SR - which for any serious wizard shouldn't be too hard anyway. The fact that you automatically know these spells is nice, but not that amazing (just saves you a few bucks), also considering that if these spells were that good, you'd choose to know them anyway when you level up. If you aren't a nitpicking DM - that's not what's going to bother you. The true power of this variant is the bonus spell slot. It makes your wizard cooler - a tad more powerful with a nice flavour added. For me, it works perfectly, since it's cut down the "What are you throwing at us, we can't handle it!" situations, since your wizard is more flexible, it also made treasure generation easier (I like the PCs to actually use the treasure they earn, not just sell it off), and it does slightly lower the "we rest now" every five minutes routine. But that's just my take on it. YMMV. Sounds to me like you are someone who doesn't play low the levels much. At low levels getting an extra spell per level for free is very nice. At 5th level that's worth 900 GP or roughly 18% of the characters wealth... that's non-trivial. As for the extra slot, it's a 30-50% increase in your highest level spells and a 25-33% increase in your second highest level spells. The extra spell is almost equivalent to having a pearl of power for each level of casting... for a regular wizard that would cost 140,000gp at 15th level. I didn't say domain wizard was broken, but seeing as the wizard is arguably the most powerful class in the game what does this variant class feature add to the game as a whole? If I'm going to bring in variant features I'm bringing in the ones that either bring the players more into balance or are more fun for RP purposes. This fits into neither of those categories.
mtbOgre 01-24-08, 01:23 PM	If you allow Domain Wizards, then there are Domain Wizards and Specialist Wizards. Nobody is going to play a "regular" Wizard. Specialist Wizards certainly have a place; Conjurers are scary. Also, they aren't the "best" spells of a given level or school, some of them are definitely sub-par. Overall, a cool but not broken class feature. Again, what does this add to the game? More power for the wiz. If you are a player and your DM lets it in, more power to you. As a DM I don't see the need to give the wiz more power at no cost. If domain wiz was allowed you would only have 1 type of wizard, domain wizards. No one would specialize because this steals all it's thunder and has none of the downside.
Totentanz 01-24-08, 03:00 PM	Well, the extra spell slot for a Domain Wizard is for that one spell, or for another spell from the Domain that is metamagicked. That is a big difference in power level. What does it add? It allows Wizards the option to be something special without giving up two schools of magic, and risk not being able to fill their role. Really though, I'm not interested in arguing with you. It's in a book full of OPTIONS after all.
mtbOgre 01-24-08, 03:39 PM	Well, the extra spell slot for a Domain Wizard is for that one spell, or for another spell from the Domain that is metamagicked. That is a big difference in power level. What does it add? It allows Wizards the option to be something special without giving up two schools of magic, and risk not being able to fill their role. Really though, I'm not interested in arguing with you. It's in a book full of OPTIONS after all. Apologies, I didn't want to be confrontational, I guess it's just my nature. The OP asked if it was 'broken'. What exactly is broken? Domain Wiz= Regular Wiz + Domains My opinion is Core Wiz is plenty strong and doesn't need an extra edge and I won't give this to a player in my game. As I said, if your DM lets you have it go for it. There is no downside, which makes it a no-brainer upgrade.
Gabriel Dian 01-24-08, 04:31 PM	Sounds to me like you are someone who doesn't play low the levels much. At low levels getting an extra spell per level for free is very nice. At 5th level that's worth 900 GP or roughly 18% of the characters wealth... that's non-trivial. As for the extra slot, it's a 30-50% increase in your highest level spells and a 25-33% increase in your second highest level spells. You're joking, right? A low level wizard is a pain to his group and to his DM (until about level 5, when he can start doing things). Until then the group has to carry them, and the DM has to make sure they don't drop dead at every second encounter. As for low level games - I'm running one now. And I've found the Domain Wizard to be quite OK for me. No need to change the party ECL or anything. Also, I agree that the choice of spells isn't close to 100% optimized for all the domains. But once again, this isn't an exact science. Talk to your players, let them know you want to try it out - and if it doesn't work for you, have them switch to a specialist/non-specialist wizard.