Post/Author/DateTime	Post
zzo38 06-26-07, 01:30 PM	I think that effects shouldn't depend on allies/enemies, they should be changed to depend on willing creatures and what effects you are trying to do. I would like to see some comments about this and if anyone has idea about specific effects how it can be changed.
Bobson 06-26-07, 05:11 PM	I think that effects shouldn't depend on allies/enemies, they should be changed to depend on willing creatures and what effects you are trying to do. I would like to see some comments about this and if anyone has idea about specific effects how it can be changed. Since you didn't give a specific example, I'll pick Prayer. I'm casting the spell. I know who's an ally and who's an foe (ignoring the possibility of traitors and double agents). I call upon my god to strengthen my allies and weaken my foes (a reasonable request, even if there was no magic at all - just look at Psalms). Why should my foes get strengthened because they happen to be willing to be?
zzo38 06-26-07, 05:38 PM	Since you didn't give a specific example, I'll pick Prayer. I'm casting the spell. I know who's an ally and who's an foe (ignoring the possibility of traitors and double agents). I call upon my god to strengthen my allies and weaken my foes (a reasonable request, even if there was no magic at all - just look at Psalms). Why should my foes get strengthened because they happen to be willing to be? Your example is good, but when I wrote about willing creatures, I didn't mean that your foes got strengthened just because they are willing to be. You also have to select them to be strengthened if that is what you want (of course, if you do not indicate anything, you can assume your god knows what you want anyways).
Bobson 06-26-07, 06:24 PM	Your example is good, but when I wrote about willing creatures, I didn't mean that your foes got strengthened just because they are willing to be. You also have to select them to be strengthened if that is what you want (of course, if you do not indicate anything, you can assume your god knows what you want anyways). Provide a counter example then. Show me a spell which affects allies and enemies differently which you think should treat them the same... where you don't have to know who your allies are. On an unrelated use of this idea, knowing who your allies are can be really interesting when the party has a traitor in their midst, and know they have the traitor, but can't do anything about it until they're in the right situation. Or when the cleric (PC or NPC) is a double-agent and about to betray the party. "Ok, start of combat: I cast prayer." "Yay, +1 to all rolls." "No, sorry. You take a -1 to all rolls. Have fun. MWAHAHHAHAH!"
Morwen 06-27-07, 08:04 AM	On an unrelated use of this idea, knowing who your allies are can be really interesting when the party has a traitor in their midst, and know they have the traitor, but can't do anything about it until they're in the right situation. Or when the cleric (PC or NPC) is a double-agent and about to betray the party. "Ok, start of combat: I cast prayer." "Yay, +1 to all rolls." "No, sorry. You take a -1 to all rolls. Have fun. MWAHAHHAHAH!" I had a fun encounter once, where one of the spellcasters in the party was a Doppelganger in disguise. Imagine the look on the faces of the other players when the spellcaster went "Ok, I cast haste" and the fighters in the party went to roll the dice for their extra attack: "Sorry, not you guys!". Ahh, fun times :)
Morwen 06-27-07, 08:06 AM	Your example is good, but when I wrote about willing creatures, I didn't mean that your foes got strengthened just because they are willing to be. You also have to select them to be strengthened if that is what you want (of course, if you do not indicate anything, you can assume your god knows what you want anyways). Okay, so you want your allies to be able to choose whether or not they're affected by spells such as prayer, rather than automatically be included just because you want them to be? If so, just put in a house rule that lets people to just that. I'd wager that most players would in most cases allow their PCs to be strengthened :)
zzo38 06-27-07, 10:21 AM	Okay, so you want your allies to be able to choose whether or not they're affected by spells such as prayer, rather than automatically be included just because you want them to be? If so, just put in a house rule that lets people to just that. I'd wager that most players would in most cases allow their PCs to be strengthened :) You have to select them as well, so if you don't select them as allies, then you can leave them alone or select them as enemies, although you probably wouldn't do that. Mostly you wouldn't choose different than the rules already say, but sometimes it is unclear who are allies and enemies and the caster has to indicate, or, in some rare cases it might even be beneficial to do the opposite!
DreadArchon 06-27-07, 10:45 PM	On an unrelated use of this idea, knowing who your allies are can be really interesting... I've done this in reverse. Me: "The enemy commander activates his Bard Song..." Players: "Crap." Me: "...You all get +2 to attack and damage..." Players: "Wait, what?" Me: "...And the other guards, after a stunned pause, attack him." Players: "Whoa, we help the commander!"