Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ashanti 05-22-07, 09:31 AM	If Druids had the attack progression of wizards what effect would this have on its role in the party? Same questions goes to not having natural spell as an option. As far as I can see the following would happen: The Druid would be less of a front line class. Even with buffs it would be difficult to be effective in melee because of the low BAB. The spell casting ability would be unchanged so its spell slinger role would be unchanged. Not being able to cast spells in altered form would force a choice between going into combat mode or spellslinger mode, it would be harder to do both. Shape changing could become a more auxilary option for scouting and infiltration, rather than a default approach to threatening encounters. These are just my opinions and we have not play tested it as non of my party like Druids. So if you can see any results of these changes please post to help me make up my mind if this is good approach to my (personal) issue with Druids being a wee bit to good all round.
Zyrusticae 05-22-07, 03:00 PM	This makes sense. I've always wondered why the 'full' arcane casters were always saddled with such low BAB, whereas 'full' divine casters get fair BAB as a minimum. It's just nonsensical. This is, of course, only worsened by the fact that druids get more class features every level than every other class in the game (animal companions, wildshape, AND full casting?). Giving them low BAB, I think, would help to even out the gap. And, let's face it.. It just doesn't make much sense that they can cast spells as an animal with no opposable digits. Eh-heh.
Lina_Inverse 05-22-07, 04:00 PM	If Druids had the attack progression of wizards what effect would this have on its role in the party? Same questions goes to not having natural spell as an option. As far as I can see the following would happen: The Druid would be less of a front line class. Even with buffs it would be difficult to be effective in melee because of the low BAB. Not much druids don't rely on BAB to function in combat like weapon users do. It's just a -5 to-hit penalty at lvl20 not the loss of an attack. A -5 penalty IS a big deal, but it won't prevent the druid from being a first string meleeist. He'll probably just be as good as a barbarian in melee instead of better. Oh with 9th level spells. It just doesn't make much sense that they can cast spells as an animal with no opposable digits. Eh-heh. I think a good chunk of the spellcasters in D&D don't have opposable digits. Beholder mages and dragons just start the fun there.
Zyrusticae 05-22-07, 04:27 PM	Dragons have opposable digits, and beholders use rays. I believe both of them are also capable of speaking, as well, unlike animals. Heh. Either way, yeah, it's not much of a nerf to druids to reduce their BAB. Personally, I'd also reduce their HD and take away their good Fort save. Even those, however, would do relatively little, thanks to their absolutely insane-as-all-getup spellcasting abilities...
decepticusprime 05-23-07, 03:20 PM	Wow, I honestly didnt know the druid was THAT overpowering unless you are INTENTIONALLY trying to break the game. Lets see, when a Druid wildshapes, does he get DR from his animal forms? How about the basic ability to overcome DR? None without enhancements from magic items OH and now the Arcane caster has HOW MANY Blaster spells? Uh huh, Fireball and lightning bolt to name a few? Lets see, true strike, the ability to essentially transform into a fighter. Oops lets not forget about limited wish and wish. Now lets look at all of the druids level benefits. Resist Natures Lure, oh hoo thats AWESOME. Venom immunity? Eh, its ok. And as for the druid's Fort save? look at everything the Monk gets. All in all, I think it is a fairly balanced class. The animal companion really isnt that impressive. Its better than 3.0, but still not spectacular. The animal will die sooner than most party members are even scratched. How about that Wizard familiar that is small enough to hide in the wizards square and never get attacked? Hmm Come to think of it? The only time I have ever seen an overpowering druid was back in 3.0 with the shifter class. I know first hand, I frustrated my DM a great deal when I came to each session with a list of monsters and situations in which they would be good. MM2 was my best friend. Any more complaints?
Zyrusticae 05-23-07, 04:12 PM	Rather than responding to this post personally, I'll just direct you to this thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=851716). As a note: Casters are all overpowered to a fault in D&D. They should not be the only metric by which you compare classes.
Lina_Inverse 05-23-07, 09:37 PM	Wow, I honestly didnt know the druid was THAT overpowering unless you are INTENTIONALLY trying to break the game. Oh ********, playing the class with half a brain breaks games wide open. You don't even need to try. None without enhancements from magic items ....Yeah this is a restriction how? everyone needs loot, loot > class levels. OH and now the Arcane caster has HOW MANY Blaster spells? Uh huh, Fireball and lightning bolt to name a few? Blaster spells are absolutely ****ing terrible. The druids are better btw. the ability to essentially transform into a fighter. Divine power? wish. The worst 9th level spell in the game? Now lets look at all of the druids level benefits. Resist Natures Lure, oh hoo thats AWESOME. Venom immunity? Eh, its ok. Wild shape. Which alone makes them better than any fighter type. The animal companion really isnt that impressive. It's better than the fighter class, from levels 1 though 20. It is ridiculously impressive. How about that Wizard familiar that is small enough to hide in the wizards square and never get attacked? Hmm Remember those blaster spells you mentioned and i insulted you for? They one shot your exp vampire. Come to think of it? The only time I have ever seen an overpowering druid was back in 3.0 with the shifter class. I know first hand, I frustrated my DM a great deal when I came to each session with a list of monsters and situations in which they would be good. MM2 was my best friend. Any more complaints? I think this just goes to show you and everyone you game with are mentally retarded and you are exceptionally closed minded to boot. All this work the rules gurus due to show how the game works and you ignore it. Your group though clearly retarded, at least has the excuse of maybe not visiting the boards.