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Germytech 09-21-05, 12:56 PM	Last updated: 28 September 2005 Updated information is in BLUE Denton bit his lip as he cupped the fist-sized stone in hands, his master watching the apprentice shaper intently from across the room. With a deep breath, Denton focused his concentration solely upon the chunk of his favored element and within moments he felt the power of magic course through his veins, giving him strength. The rock liquified in his hands, yet he maintained control of its shape. Like clay, Denton molded the rock as a potter would with his own medium, shaping it with his caress. Within moments, a tiny sculpture of a bird formed in Denton's hands, the magic receded, and the rock hardened. The young Shaper of Earth raised his head to meet the eyes of his master, who nodded once with a glimmer of a smile. "Tomorrow," his master said, "You will direct the wind." Denton nodded in return, setting the stone bird upon the table at his side. A New Magic System The Core Idea: Magic is based on the three elements of Air, Earth, and Water, each with their distinct advantages and disadvantages. By mastering these elements, a mage can learn to manipulate Fire and Cold, and eventually Force and Time. Only these elements may be manipulated, or shaped, and must be present in order to shape them. No mind-affecting spells, no healing, no polymorphing, no summoning. Only the inanimate may be used to create spell effects. The magic of shaping is versatile. To create an effect, a shaper mage must invest "points" into the spell, the number of points available determined by class level. These points are distributed among such spell elements as range, area of effect, damage, and others. The magic of shaping is taxing. The duration of these spells is very short, on the order of rounds. Although there is no "spells per day" limit, a caster must maintain concentration in the midst of battle to do so. Shaper Magic Spellcasting: Spellcasting consists of several components, each of which are determined "on the fly." The element used in casting must be present. Not until higher level can one gain the ability to "conjure" their chosen element. Until then, the magic is based on shaping an element that already exits. Each element has a "base" which makes that element more suited to particular effects, however by investing points these properties can be improved. A spell requires a given amount of time to cast, determined by the element and the points invested. Damage spells are always instantaneous, but spells with other effects can be maintained by "recasting" the spell when its duration runs out. For example, an Air spell effect is created, as a standard action, with a duration of 2 rounds. The shaper may choose, after the 2 rounds ends, to maintain the same spell with another standard action for another 2 rounds. Or, by investing more points in the original spell, the shaper could have chosen for the effect to last 4 rounds without requiring another action to maintain it. The base descriptions of the various elements are below. Air Air is one of the easiest elements to manipulate. Without magic, one can wave their hand in the Air to create a brief, short breeze. Thus, the base size of effect is larger than the other elements, as well as the ability to manipulate the element at a greater range. Unfortunately, air is tempestuous and unpredictable. It's base duration is 0 rounds (essentially allowing only instantaneous effects), and spells without an increased duration must be recast as a standard action every round in order to maintain. Base Size of Effect: Tiny Base Range: 5 ft. Base Duration: 0 rounds Base Damage: 1d4 Base Casting Time: standard action Base Recasting Time: standard action Earth Earth has the advantage, and disadvantage, of durability. It is the most difficult element with which to work, with the smallest base size of effect, a casting time of 1 full round (not 1 full-round action), and the requirement of touching the element in order to manipulate it. However, once shaped, it takes far less effort to maintain with a longer base duration and requiring only a move action to recast and maintain the same effect. Base Size of Effect: Fine Base Range: Touch Base Duration: 3 rounds Base Damage: 1d6 Base Casting Time: 1 round Base Recasting Time: move action Water Water is far more rarely shaped than either Air or Earth, due to its prevalence, yet it's practice has become essential to survival. Because of its fluidity, its size of effect is as large as for Air, but it still must be touched. Not as unpredictable as air, it can also maintain its effect for a base duration of 1 round, but still requires the standard action in order to maintain. Base Size of Effect: Tiny Base Range: Touch Base Duration: 1 round Base Damage: 1d4 Base Casting Time: standard action Base Recasting Time: standard action In order to cast a spell, "points" must be invested to determine all of the elements of a spell, extending the size, range and duration of the element manipulated. The points required for specific effects include the following: Size: +1 point per size category Range: +1 point per 5 ft. Duration: +1 point per round Damage: +2 points per dice Skill Penalty/Bonus: +1 point per -1/+1 penalty/bonus Combat Penalty/Bonus: +2 points per -1/+1 penalty/bonus All elements can create all types of effects, but must be described by the player and make sense. Casting an Earth spell to gain a deflection bonus does not make sense. However, if the player describes the spell as "lifting several small pebbles in the air, swirling around me and knocking against incoming weapons," then it does, indeed, make sense. For example, a shaper mage would like to cast an Air spell that surrounds himself and grants him a deflection bonus to his AC. Size: Medium (since it affects his whole self). Cost: 2 Range: Touch. Cost: 0 Duration: 5 rounds. Cost: 5 AC Bonus: +2. Cost: 4 So, the total cost of this spell would be 11 points, with a casting time of a standard action. Let's say we did a similar thing with an Earth spell, raising a wall of earth to protect the shaper mage. Size: Medium. Cost: 4 Range: Touch. Cost: 0 Duration: 5 rounds. Cost: 2 Absorb 2d6 damage/round. Cost: 4 So, the total cost of this spell would be 10 points, with a casting time of 1 round. The Shaper Mage BAB Fort Ref Will Points 1. +0 +2 +0 +0 1 2. +1 +3 +0 +0 2 3. +1 +3 +1 +1 3 4. +2 +4 +1 +1 4 5. +2 +4 +1 +1 5 6. +3 +5 +2 +2 6 7. +3 +5 +2 +2 7 8. +4 +6 +2 +2 8 9. +4 +6 +3 +3 9 10. +5 +7 +3 +3 10 11. +5 +7 +3 +3 11 12. +6/+1 +8 +4 +4 12 13. +6/+1 +8 +4 +4 13 14. +7/+2 +9 +4 +4 14 15. +7/+2 +9 +5 +5 15 16. +8/+3 +10 +5 +5 16 17. +8/+3 +10 +5 +5 17 18. +9/+4 +11 +6 +6 18 19. +9/+4 +11 +6 +6 19 20. +10/+5 +12 +6 +6 20 Abilities 1. Mastery 2. Mastery 3. 4. Mastery 5. 6. Mastery 7. 8. Mastery 9. 10. Mastery 11. 12. Mastery 13. 14. Mastery 15. 16. Mastery 17. 18. Mastery 19. 20. Mastery Mastery: At 1st-level, 2rd-level, and every two levels after, the shaper mage gains a Mastery ability. Any of the following may be chosen, as long as the prerequisite abilities are met. Air Mastery Prerequisites: None. The shaper mage gains the ability to manipulate the magical element of Air. Add 5 points to the "resource pool" for Air Spells. Earth Mastery Prerequisites: None. The shaper mage gains the ability to manipulate the magical element of Earth. Add 5 points to the "resource pool" for Earth Spells. Fire Mastery Prerequisites: Air Master, Earth Mastery, Water Mastery. The shaper mage gains the ability to manipulate the magical element of Fire. Add 5 points to the "resource pool" for Fire Spells. Cold Mastery Prerequisites: Air Master, Earth Mastery, Water Mastery. The shaper mage gains the ability to manipulate the magical element of Cold. Add 5 points to the "resource pool" for Cold Spells. Force Mastery Prerequisites: Air Master, Earth Mastery, Water Mastery, Fire Mastery, Cold Mastery. The shaper mage gains the ability to manipulate the magical element of Force. Add 5 points to the "resource pool" for Force Spells. Time Mastery Prerequisites: Air Master, Earth Mastery, Water Mastery, Fire Mastery, Cold Mastery, Force Mastery. The shaper mage gains the ability to manipulate the magical element of Time. Add 5 points to the "resource pool" for Time Spells. More Mastery Abilities: Conjuration Prerequisites: Mastery of chosen element, Shape Element, caster level 10. The shaper mage may now conjure an amount of element that he needs to create a spell effect. The element need not be present. Add 2 points to the"resource pool" for spells of the chosen element. Decrease Maintainence Prerequisites: Mastery of chosen element, caster level 10. The shaper mage may spend less effort concentrating on an ongoing spell with a duration. Decrease the type of action by one step. Full-round to standard, standard to move, and move to free. This ability may be chosen multiple times, though it must apply to a different element each time. Add 2 points to the "resource pool" for spells of the chosen element. Increase Die Prerequisites: Mastery of chosen element, caster level 10. The shaper mage may strengthen spells with the chosen element. Increase the die used for damage or protection by one step. 1d4 to 1d6, 1d6 to 1d8, 1d8 to 1d10. This ability may be chosen multiple times, though it must apply to a different element each time. Add 2 points to the "resource pool" for spells of the chosen element. Shape Element Prerequisites: Mastery of chosen element, caster level 5 The shaper mage may shape the spells of the chosen element as he desires. Instead of effecting a fixed area, he may choose to leave "holes" where allies may not be damaged, or where opponents are not gain benefits. Add 2 points to the "resource pool" for spells of the chosen element. Where to go From Here There would be other Mastery choices, but along similar lines. I have also not explained the effects of Fire, Force, etc. Mastery. But these are the basic building blocks to this type of magic. A little bit psionics, a little bit incarnum, but something different, I hope. The idea is that spells require a management of the points available, yet it is very flexible. You could do a lot of damage, but it would have to be a touch spell on a small object. Hopefully, by requiring a cost for range and size, it tempers the damage that might be done and balance the system. But I still need some help. :-) Ideas? Comments? Feedback? Thanks!
Hierarch Leviticus 09-21-05, 04:59 PM	Okay, I still haven't got the whole idea into my head firly, so I can't throw numbers for you. However, I can say though there seems to be some pretty good variance between elements, it will need to be described in a way that "grabs" the reader more. Right now, the differences just come across as strings of numbers - by describing why each element has each rating, you'll make it more intuitive and easier to remember.
Gilean 09-22-05, 08:13 AM	Fire and cold? Shouldn't it be heat and cold?
Glak 09-22-05, 08:45 PM	no it shouldn't. Fire is more stylish than Heat. He isn't just making a bland earth/air/fire/water system, he is making a new elemental system. Creativty is good, but unfortunately rare.
FlameLover 09-22-05, 09:05 PM	I realize you wanted to have temperature seperate from element but the first thing that hit me was "no fire!" and it just feels that it is missing without it. I like that you were 'brave' enough to throw fire out but i just wouldn't play as one because of that. So keep going with it, it's very interesting but not my sort of thing. I actually have something like this for a custom magic system but it includes fire, earth, air, water, law, chaos, good and evil. So yeah, good luck!
Germytech 09-22-05, 09:34 PM	Thanks, guys, for the encouragement of my different "element" system. Technicially, besides the first three "physical" elements, the other elements could be called Heat and Cold. But simply to help keep people familiar with the elements, I kept the name of Fire. What I was thinking, for the above magic system, was that by learning the element of Fire or Cold, you would use that knowledge to enhance or template your spells of another element. After all, you need something to apply heat or cold to. I'm still revising the system, and will soon repost something with more descriptive flair, but I thought I would through out version 0.4 and see what bites. ;)
FlameLover 09-22-05, 09:55 PM	Yeah that's what i was saying about temperature, and i think it would be interesting to have Fire and Cold as templates. Like Earth + Fire = lava/magma while Water + Fire = steam/fog for example. And remember that both wood and metal were considered elements by some oriental cultures (IIRC) so you might want to put them in there somehow too.
Gilean 09-23-05, 08:12 AM	Technicially, besides the first three "physical" elements, the other elements could be called Heat and Cold. But simply to help keep people familiar with the elements, I kept the name of Fire.I have also removed fire as an elemnt, in the way that earth, water and air are. Fire is there, seprate from heat and cold. Coldfire is possible. And not very fun if you get hit by it.
Valoy_Muniz 09-23-05, 09:19 AM	I like your Idea. If you do not mind I would like to do something similer if I could get your permission.
Germytech 09-23-05, 01:34 PM	Permission granted! Also, I won't be including other elements such as wood or metal. I'm a scientist by trade, so the idea behind Earth, Water, and Air is somewhat related to solid, liquid, gas. Fire and Cold are increases in energy and decreases in energy. Force is the direct manipulation of space itself, a kind of combination of all five of the previous elements. This system works only with inanimate, nonliving things. Wood, even dead wood, is too complex for a shaper mage to manipulate. Metal is essentially earth. And so on.
Valoy_Muniz 09-23-05, 02:10 PM	The way I am going it is solid, liquid,and gas. With positive or nedative energy. Also how many points are you giveing to them I could not see any other then the bounes. Since mine is inted as a class and not a difrent system I am going to post it in the class section but link it here.
Valoy_Muniz 09-23-05, 02:15 PM	It is up at http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=7330624#post7330624 Tell me what you think.
Hierarch Leviticus 09-23-05, 02:34 PM	I would also suggest that, given where you may be going with this, that you look up Ars Magica. The 4th edition is a free PDF download; I just can't remember where it is. But it has an interesting magica system that you might find worthy of plundering.
Gilean 09-24-05, 06:48 AM	I would also suggest that, given where you may be going with this, that you look up Ars Magica. The 4th edition is a free PDF download; I just can't remember where it is. But it has an interesting magica system that you might find worthy of plundering.Second that. A worthy read, indeed.
Xeviat-DM 09-25-05, 03:48 AM	As far as the solid, liquid, gas thing you're going for, I think you're making things hard from you by mixing ancient alchemy (elemental knowledge) to modern chemistry (elemental knowledge). Remember, when dealing with the same element or compound, solid, liquid, gas, and plasma are determined by the amount of energy present within the matter. Water becomes solid when energy is taken from it, and becomes a gas when energy is added to it, and presumably it will become a plasma when even more energy is added to it. Earth is usually solid, but can become liquid, gas, or plasma if enough energy is added. I mention Plasma because that links up with Fire as Solid, Liquid, and Gas link up with Earth, Water, and Air. I enjoy adding realism and psudoscience to my games more than the common DM, but I'm thinking that you may have trouble with this. Here's a few questions I'll ask you to get you thinking: If you're comparing Solid, Liquid, and Gas to Earth, Water, and Air, what is Earth made of chemically? What is Water made of chemically? What is Air made of chemically? What is Plasma? Is Fire excited matter released from a chemical reaction, or just is it something less than tangible but more than nothing? I do think you have potential here, a friend of mine considered something very similar. Where's electricity? Light? Other forms of radiation? Those might give you different directions to go. Also, what temperature are you considering neutral? From a physics standpoint, anything above absolute zero is considered to have heat. Where does cool end and hot begin? 72 degrees? An arctic animal and a desert animal might disagree with you. I don't mean to spit in your cereal, just trying to get you to think. You have potential, you just may want to think of if you're going to allow non evocative/conjuration effects to be made. Helpful suggestion: Fire is Air/Heat, Steam is Water/Heat, Lava is Earth/Heat; Chill Wind is Air/Cold, Ice is Water/Cold, and ... something is Earth/Cold.
Germytech 09-26-05, 01:03 PM	Thanks, everyone, for the great feedback. I'll be modifying/explaining some more of this system by the end of today... Xeviat DM - Thank you for your advice, too. I definitely do not plan on porting the physics concepts of "Solid, Liquid, Gas" into a magic elemental system: I was only somewhat using them as a guideline, an initial jumping-off-point. Being magic, these are my thoughts of how certain elements are to be defined (I've already worked out something similar in a new cosmology here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=490928)): "Room temperature" determines the type of base element. If a shaper mage learns Water Magic then he can manipulate steam, ice, and regular water. If another shaper mage learns Earth Magic then she can manipulate lava, permafrost, and regular stone and dirt. Etc. Mechanically, adding a "Fire" or "Cold" template to an element will probably simply align the spell along with that descriptor and do extra damage and/or result in other status effects. Possibly I might allow the combination of elements, as well. Descriptively, it might look like this:Air = Wind Air + Fire = Fire (flames) Air + Cold = Frost (chilling wind) Earth = Stone Earth + Fire = Magma (lava) Earth + Cold = Pernafrost (frozen) Water = Water Water + Fire = Scalding (boiling) Water + Cold = Ice (freezing) Air + Earth = Dust (sandstorm) Air + Earth +Fire = Cinders (firestorm) Air + Earth + Cold = Hail (dirty snowstorm) Earth + Water = Mud (ooze) Earth + Water + Fire = Tar (boiling) Earth + Water + Cold = ?? Really Cold Mud Water + Air = Mist (fog) Water + Air + Fire = Steam (scalding) Water + Air + Cold = Snow (storm) No plasma, although the combination of all "five" elements results in Force, the direct manipulation of space. Electricity would be a form of fire. Acid would be a form of Earth+Water (if I allow the combination of the basic elements in that way). Sonic would be a special application of air. Light/darkness descriptors don't exist. Healing doesn't exist. Mind-affecting effects don't exist. At least, not for this elemental magic: both might be granted through divine. All forms of shaper magic must result in the direct manipulation of these elements. (Although Force may allow more fantastic effects.) Just a bit of explanation of how I imagine the magic system. More to follow. :)
Valoy_Muniz 09-26-05, 04:07 PM	Healing could come under water like in the old verson of magic games.
Germytech 09-26-05, 05:26 PM	Healing could come under water like in the old verson of magic games. Except I don't want it to. ;) I want to create a magic system that is dependent solely on the manipulation of the elements, and nothing more. But, with tremendous versatility in that manipulation.
Hierarch Leviticus 09-26-05, 06:32 PM	Except I don't want it to. ;) I want to create a magic system that is dependent solely on the manipulation of the elements, and nothing more. But, with tremendous versatility in that manipulation. :D If that's your aim, great! However, in the same general sphere of rules, I can then imagine that there might be more than one kind of Shaper in the world. Imagine, if you will, a "Life Shaper", whose 'elements' were Blood, Breath, and Bone...
Gilean 09-27-05, 07:15 AM	Water and fire result in acid. Water as in liquid form, which acid has (for the purposes of RPGs, at least). Both fire and acid erode things and "burn" when touched.
Xeviat-DM 09-28-05, 04:10 AM	Except that Acid is usually Water with certain ionic minerals disolved within it which increase the H+ concentration above PH 7. Since the poster seems to want to go for something a little more scientific than ancient alchemy, Acid would have to be Water/Earth.
Gilean 09-28-05, 05:36 AM	Except that Acid is usually Water with certain ionic minerals disolved within it which increase the H+ concentration above PH 7. Since the poster seems to want to go for something a little more scientific than ancient alchemy, Acid would have to be Water/Earth.I definitely do not plan on porting the physics concepts of "Solid, Liquid, Gas" into a magic elemental system: I was only somewhat using them as a guideline, an initial jumping-off-point. I do know what acids and bases are. I can calculate a lot of things about them. I simply understood that Germytech isn't going for scientific model.
Germytech 09-28-05, 10:44 AM	I do know what acids and bases are. I can calculate a lot of things about them. I simply understood that Germytech isn't going for scientific model. You're both right, although I admit that Xeviat-DM is closer to the mark. Although I'm not going to worry about phase transitions, amorphous solids, crystals, plasma, etc., I am trying to maintain the basic physical properties of substances. So, Fire would translate into a literal increase in heat while acid would be more aptly described as rock dissolved into water.
Germytech 09-28-05, 12:29 PM	Allrighty, updated the first post with some flavor text and more descriptions of the system. Looking any better? Soon, I will add in the basics for the higher-level elements.
Gilean 09-29-05, 11:16 AM	Still looks fine.
moet324 10-06-05, 12:57 PM	OMG I HAD BEEN WRAKING MY BRAIN FOR THE PAST 2 MONTHS ON HOW TO DEVELOP A FORM OF MAGIC LIKE THIS ONE!!11!!111!!!!11ONEONEONE, this is just remarkable. thank you so very very very much. But i have to ask a Question: am i missing where Fire/Cold/Force/Time are explained and typed out like the Air,Earth, and Water. Also the points they get per level, is this their per day usage or per cast useage? if its the former i think it realy needs to be increased, and if its the later i realy havnt thought of what i think abou that. On a diffirent note: in order to shape something i need to have some of it present correct? well what constitutes that material and then what could I then do with this material? For example could i use my own blood for water? and could i then turn this blood into actual water? with Air could i then turn a dragons posion gas breath attack into normal air? or even water? Transmuting is deffinatly where alot of my questions rest. Could I pick up a rock and investing no points transmute it into say gold? both are Earth yes? I guess the reason i have most of these questions is because when i was trying to come up with this kind of system i was planning on allowing them greater powers over said elements with transmutation circles(sry for the fanboyism), but in general i must say i absolutley love this in all its forms. Great Freakin Job :clap: :love: :bow: :bow: :drool: :drool: :tiphat: sry i realy felt like puting down alot of smilies lol
Germytech 10-06-05, 06:14 PM	Well, the concept is definitely far from completion. In essence, every time the shaper gains a Mastery ability, he can choose to either improve on one of the elements he already knows (via Increase Die or Shape Element) or choose a new element (such as Earth Mastery) To choose to master Fire or Cold (the mechanics for which I have not yet described) requires all three base elements to be mastered. Force requires mastery of both Fire and Cold. Time requires Force. The higher level elements grant stronger and unique powers at the expense of specialization in an element. Just as you choose how to distribute your "points" in this system to craft a single spell, you choose your mastery specialization over the course of several levels. In regards to your other questions: There is no limit on the number of spells cast per day. The restiction is on how each individual spell is cast. The "points" available are dependent on caster level and are invested into each spell as it is crafted. Transumatation (blood to water, or air to poison gas) would possibly be a higher level Mastery ability, much like Conjuration. Otherwise, the actual, normal element must be present.
moet324 10-06-05, 06:35 PM	hmmmmm so the first mastery i choose, has to be an element mastery? and do i have to choose an element mastery to gain accsses to teh ability to shape said element? Also could/would Force entail the radiation type elements mentioned before(electricity,light,etc) or do you just not plann on these elements being shapable by the shaper? Also a slight mechanic hitch I found(not realy sure if it is a hitch but<shurg>) one of the examples you used was of the shiled of stone being raised, this cost 10 "points" for the medium caster because he had to raise the shield to his size, BUT a small caster would only have to pay 9 "points" to raise the same shield, and likewise a large caster would have to pay 11 "points". My point being that i dont think size should realy raise such a bonus/hinderance to a caster, though i might just be incompetant or my brain is addeled by the cold im not realy sure of much lol. Also would it be cool if i yoinked and moded this?
Germytech 10-06-05, 07:41 PM	Yoink away. But if you want to post your own version of some kind, somewhere, please credit me. :) I've had a few problems lately of people doing that. With regards to a defensible spell costing a different number of points depending on the size of the caster... Yes, that is an intentional consequence. The way I figure it, it is no different than a +1/-1 difference to attack or AC, based on size. The "points" a caster may use simply mirrors these same mechanic.
moet324 10-06-05, 10:58 PM	lol no problem man, its your baby and what a baby, you put way to much thought and effort into this for me to not give credit where its due. On a slightly related note if you like ill post what im thinking about changing here. cause im not sure if id post anything lol
moet324 10-08-05, 02:41 PM	wow i was just crunching some numbers on your system. in order to create a spell equal to fireball of a 5th level caster. one would need to shape earth, and have 36 points at ones disposle.(assuming im doing all of this correctly) 10 points for 5d6 10 points for 50ft range 16 points for 80ft diameter For a grand total of 36 points wich only a 36th level Shaper would have, wich is more than 7x the level of that 5th level Wizard. Not realy sure if thats what you had in mind.
Germytech 10-08-05, 05:36 PM	Well, almost. First, the radius is fixed at 20 ft., making the total area of effect approximately Huge or Gargantuan size, which would be only about +4 or +5. Plus, the points available will be more than caster level: remember each mastery gives the caster additional points. So a fifth-level caster will probably have approximately 10 points or so. Also, Air would probably be best, with the Fire template (if I go that route). A Fire template would (I think) add some free die of damage, as well, affecting the final calculation. Other than that, yes, it would still cost several points, and in the end should be prohibitively expensive: it can be cast at will. Such a spell could be cast any number of times per day, over and over. Therefore, the damage that can be done by a single casting should be much less.
moet324 10-08-05, 08:37 PM	when does it say it maxes out at 20ft? and why does it max out at 20ft? and well i wasnt bothering with the fire or anything like that cause that hasnt been worked out yet. and yea i hadnt taken into account the number of times that such a spell cuold be thrown out. and also doesnt the mastery abilities only apply to the use of its element?(oh and that brings up an old question do you have to have chosen said elemental mastery to be able to use that element or can one use all the elements before gaining mastery with them?
Loriann10 10-09-05, 12:45 AM	I like that. I am little bite learn about the element. I know four elements. But I don't know that. It's get someone the new "five elements." They are made idea new elements. I read on the boards. :D :clap: :D
moet324 10-11-05, 03:50 PM	hey ive been thinking about the system and ive thought of a few things i cant make an answear for or anything like that. 1)In your example the budding youg shaper Denton turns a rock into a statue. how would one do this? would it cost anypoints? 2)That raised the question on how one could simply alter the compisition of the element? For example I have Water mastery, what if I want to solidify the water under my feet so that i can walk on it? would this cost points and would i need to apply someform of template? basicly what all can one do with ones mastery of the elemtns though more in depth than alot ive seen still leaves some questions 3)I think instead of having base size of effect it might be easier(book keeping wise) to make it area of effect rather than the base size. 4)Also i think there should be a base required amount of the material in question to shape it. These are just thuoghts i had and things im thinking of changing if i intend to make my own. Also ive come up with an idea for making a fire template if thats the route you wanted to go. Fire Template Base Size: +2 size categorys Base Range: No Affect Duriation: -3 rounds(minimum of instantenous) Dice: Increases base damage by one category(d4-d6),adds 3d6 for damage,decreases cost for dice increase to 1:1 Casting Time: 2 full round actions Fire is a volitle and powerfull substance, as such when combined with other elemnts it greatly increases their powers and numerical effects. Fire is quick aswel, quick to spread and quick to die, because of this fire spreads itself, as well as any combined element, increasing the size of the effect by two categorys but it also decreases the duriation by 3 rounds(to a minimum of instantenous). Fire along with its added speed and power is difficult to invoke, draw, and manipulate as such it takes two full round actions to shape any element templated with fire, and a full round action to keep a fire templated spell going. sory for any miss spelling and the text i just cooked up so sry for its lameness
Kupan 10-12-05, 05:48 PM	Well as for the water walking i would say it would be something along the lines of a water "sheild". You would pay for the duration and a minimum of (would be dm call i would say) 1 hd per person +1 for every extra size category above medium. and shaping a statue could be done with one point if you spent time at it. instead of being a magicaly powered effect it magicaly taking away and reshaping the stone, not holding it together. otherwise if you used say, some stone flooring to power a spell it would be implying that after the effect is done you are also paying to return it to where it was, which brings up some interesting possibilities for "return" hits, etc etv. I am hoping my Dm will allow this class for our next campaign, and that you have the second teir effects/templates produced by then. But even if you don't it still looks to be a very fun class :D . Update: Well i have tried a session as this class and it seems to be working ok, a couple of things that we came up with for using it is that it is a Wis based spell caster, and i drew up a temp sheet for fire and cold and time. Also we are working on the assumption that the Masteries are essencialy feats like a fighter gets, because i couldn't find any other feats that i wanted to get easily so i just poured them into masteries, you might either officialy take this route or make a set of feats that are separate. You also don't have skills, the ones we decided would fit would be Concentration, All crafts, Decipher script, Forgery, Heal, Knowledge planes arcana and nobility/royalty, any profession, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, and Use Magic device. We came to this list assuming that how the powers work require something along the lines of (full metal alchemist) alchemy knowledge for restructuring IE can't make a spear if you don't know the shape and where to strengthen. We also decided that Chain Shirt was appropriate , and simple weapons. From the description it seems like there arn't gestures as such, just concentration to make the powers work, so arcane spell failure doesn't seem to apply. 1d6 hp seemed fair, along with 4+int skills. Now I don't know how to do the tables, and i don't have the time to look it up right now so i will just type it straight. Base Size of Effect: Fire Med :Cold Med :Force Small :Time Large Base Range : Fire 5' :Cold 5' :Force 5' :time 5' Base Duration: Fire 0 : Cold 4 :Force 1: Time 1 Base Damage: Fire 1d8 :Cold 1d6 :Force 1D10 :Time 1D4 Base Casting Time: Fire Cold Force standard :Time Free Base Recasting: all free action and Time can't do damage but uses an effect chart that i have drawn up since the session i tried it in, havn't gotten dm approval yet. But here is what i was thinking for time Basicaly only roll one dice to determine the effect, using the total number of dice that are in the spell (including the one you rolled) to get the effect to apply to enemy or ally. ---->Number of Dice | v die result Sorry for the chart i know it won't stack right If someone could redo it that would be great if not i will look up how to do the chart and fix it later when i have the time. -|1 |2 |3 |4 |5 |6 |7 |8 |9 |10 |11 1|- |- |- |Dd2|Dd4|Dd6|D2d4|D2d6|D2D8|D3d6|D3d8 2|- |D1|D1| 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 5 | 5 3|D1| 1 | 1 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 5 | 5 | 7 | 7 4| 1 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 7 | 7 5| 2 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 7 | 8 | 7 6| 2 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 8 | 9 | 8 7| 3 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 9 | 9 | 10 8| 4 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 9 | 10 | 10 | 10 9| 5 | 6 | 7 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 9 | 10 | 10 | 10 | R# 10|6 | 7 |8 |8 | 9 | 9 | R* | R* | R# | R# | R# 11|7 | 8 |8 |8 | R*| R* | R#| R# | R | R | R 12|R |R*|R*|R#| R#| R# | R | R | R | R | R^ (Durations for effects are the duration of the magic which hits them, and unlike normal spells time cannot be renewed, because no man is times master) D : Temp Dex damage for the listed amount for the duration, havn't playtested yet so i don't know if the dex damage should stack or only take the highest one. 1 : Target loses their free action 2 : Target loses their move action 3 : Target only gets a partial action 4 : Target is knocked prone/ if flying falls uncontrolled for the duration 5 : Target is disarmed (weapon phases out of time for a moment as their hand passes through) 6 : Target is entangled(Time is distorted and the creature has to fight through it .) 7 : Target is Dazed. 8 : Time distortion causes target to panick. 9 : Target is slowed to the point where all hits deal subdual damage only (target has time to brace appropriatly) except critical hits which count as normal non critical hits. 10 : As 9 except critical hits are critical subdual hits. R* : Roll twice at one level lower R# : Roll twice with one of the rolls being at a level lower R : Roll Twice at same level R^ :Roll a 12 sided die, if result is 12 target is torn apart by time, any other number results in rolling twice at same level cannot reroll more than once, if you land on any R after already getting one just reroll. For Positive effects it would be the opposite except for the following 4: Is treated as having haste (extra attack at full bonus) 5: Target gets a free disarm, sunder, or trip attempt each turn. 6: Target is trated as having free movement and gains +6 vs fear effects( things are alot less scary in slow motion) 7: Target gets one extra turn to be used before the end of the duration on his normal spot in initiative. 8: Target gains 3 AoOs to be used before the end of the duration or they are lost. 9: first attack each turn catches enemy as flat footed 10: First attack is a touch attack Before you respond please Remember you only start with d4s and it takes an extra feat for each dice size above that, making it 4 feats to have a decent (non epic level) chance to get a roll twice. and the fact that with earth for the feats you spend to get to this you could have 7 extra earth masteries and 3 earth dice increases giving 20 more points and earth dice of d12s by the time you get to d12s on time. at that point (without class level points even) you could be doing 11d12 of touch attacks. But you would only be able to use earth and no other elements. hope that comes out right, feel free to change/ignore, if something doesn't seem to be in the right place it might not be i only have a couple of minutes to type all this out.
Land Outcast 09-02-06, 12:39 PM	Hey Germytech! (if you are still around) Have you ever touched again upon this system?
Saros 09-03-06, 11:19 PM	Germytech's around here somewhere. :) Over in the Classes forum I've put together a variant spellcaster based heavily on Germytech's elemental shaping system, here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=694863). You can check it out if you like. Or you could ignore it. It doesn't really matter. ;) ~Saros
Germytech 10-02-06, 10:58 PM	^ | | `--- Do not ignore it. I had the most bare bones of ideas, but not the wherewithal to formulate it mechanically. Saros has done so quite well, and it remains under discussion at the link above. I am very proud of what it has become, and what it is becoming. :)