Evasion/Mettle [Archive] - Wizards Community

Evasion/Mettle [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
parad0cz
10-24-06, 12:27 PM Ok, im trying to flesh out my generic d20 system

Evasion is for reflex saves, and mettle is for will AND fort.

If i was to follow the Generic System and make evasion a feat, and i was trying to do the same for mettle, should mettle be broken up into two feats? Like Steadfastness for fort and Stubboness for will? And then have improved versions of each? Or is mettle balenced with evasion?

A seperate reason i ask is i am trying to do a minor modification to the monk(whom i think is more dex based) to a more strength based one. Im thinking Improved grapple and Stunning fist feats, and maybe Improve disarm at 6th. Giving mettle or Steadfastness instead of evasion. I would need to know which is more equvalent powerwise
Rutibex
10-24-06, 01:46 PM Mettle is balanced as it is because most will/fort based spell don't have partial effects for a save, most just negate the effect completly. Reflex saves on the other hand almost always have partial effects.
parad0cz
10-24-06, 01:57 PM Hmm, so i guess thats why there is no Improved Mettle... interesting. I wouldnt have cought that. Thanks!

What spells do have a partial fort or will effect?
sigma999
10-26-06, 03:21 AM From memory the best example I can come up with is any [death] spell that says "on a successful save the target still takes 5d6 damage" or something like that. Mettle would stop this.
X-Codes
10-26-06, 03:36 AM From memory the best example I can come up with is any [death] spell that says "on a successful save the target still takes 5d6 damage" or something like that. Mettle would stop this.
Orb spells, too, even though on a successful save you actually negate the vast majority of the effect.

Theres a lot of spells it works with, mostly damage spells with a save-or-suck addon as opposed to just save-or-suck spells (which usually are X negates).
sigma999
10-26-06, 04:25 AM Orb spells, too, even though on a successful save you actually negate the vast majority of the effect.

Theres a lot of spells it works with, mostly damage spells with a save-or-suck addon as opposed to just save-or-suck spells (which usually are X negates).

Damn those orb spells.. could be so much better than they are. Cmon... ray attack, THEN a save?
What self-respecting blaster would bother wasting a spell like that. It's a 25% chance success on average, unless you make it a ray OR a save-spell.

Then there is Scorching Ray.. *glare*
X-Codes
10-26-06, 07:28 AM Damn those orb spells.. could be so much better than they are. Cmon... ray attack, THEN a save?
What self-respecting blaster would bother wasting a spell like that. It's a 25% chance success on average, unless you make it a ray OR a save-spell.

Then there is Scorching Ray.. *glare*
Actually, the orbs are pretty good under normal conditions. The save is only against Minor Condition X and doesn't reduce damage normally. This is just one of those interesting situations where Mettle is a bit more powerful than intended.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
parad0cz 10-24-06, 12:27 PM	Ok, im trying to flesh out my generic d20 system Evasion is for reflex saves, and mettle is for will AND fort. If i was to follow the Generic System and make evasion a feat, and i was trying to do the same for mettle, should mettle be broken up into two feats? Like Steadfastness for fort and Stubboness for will? And then have improved versions of each? Or is mettle balenced with evasion? A seperate reason i ask is i am trying to do a minor modification to the monk(whom i think is more dex based) to a more strength based one. Im thinking Improved grapple and Stunning fist feats, and maybe Improve disarm at 6th. Giving mettle or Steadfastness instead of evasion. I would need to know which is more equvalent powerwise
Rutibex 10-24-06, 01:46 PM	Mettle is balanced as it is because most will/fort based spell don't have partial effects for a save, most just negate the effect completly. Reflex saves on the other hand almost always have partial effects.
parad0cz 10-24-06, 01:57 PM	Hmm, so i guess thats why there is no Improved Mettle... interesting. I wouldnt have cought that. Thanks! What spells do have a partial fort or will effect?
sigma999 10-26-06, 03:21 AM	From memory the best example I can come up with is any [death] spell that says "on a successful save the target still takes 5d6 damage" or something like that. Mettle would stop this.
X-Codes 10-26-06, 03:36 AM	From memory the best example I can come up with is any [death] spell that says "on a successful save the target still takes 5d6 damage" or something like that. Mettle would stop this. Orb spells, too, even though on a successful save you actually negate the vast majority of the effect. Theres a lot of spells it works with, mostly damage spells with a save-or-suck addon as opposed to just save-or-suck spells (which usually are X negates).
sigma999 10-26-06, 04:25 AM	Orb spells, too, even though on a successful save you actually negate the vast majority of the effect. Theres a lot of spells it works with, mostly damage spells with a save-or-suck addon as opposed to just save-or-suck spells (which usually are X negates). Damn those orb spells.. could be so much better than they are. Cmon... ray attack, THEN a save? What self-respecting blaster would bother wasting a spell like that. It's a 25% chance success on average, unless you make it a ray OR a save-spell. Then there is Scorching Ray.. glare
X-Codes 10-26-06, 07:28 AM	Damn those orb spells.. could be so much better than they are. Cmon... ray attack, THEN a save? What self-respecting blaster would bother wasting a spell like that. It's a 25% chance success on average, unless you make it a ray OR a save-spell. Then there is Scorching Ray.. glare Actually, the orbs are pretty good under normal conditions. The save is only against Minor Condition X and doesn't reduce damage normally. This is just one of those interesting situations where Mettle is a bit more powerful than intended.