Everyone's an adept [Archive] - Wizards Community

Everyone's an adept [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
The_Fan
12-28-06, 09:51 PM I had an interesting campaign idea while reading Tome of Battle: Everyone's an Adept.

The campaign would take place in a clockpunk and anime-influenced version of rennaissance Europe, though with any historical accuracy purely coincidental.

Every PC and major NPC is gestalted with one of the martial adept classes. For multiclass purposes, the martial adept class you choose is ignored. You can't choose to double up on them though, and you have to take that class 1-20.

Full casters are banned. No class with 9 levels of spells, powers, etc is allowed. This includes warlocks, dragonfire adepts, and all incarnum. Other than that, pretty much any class is allowed. Psychic warriors, ninjas, duskblades, artificers...all okay.

Magic items are limited. Nothing too fantastic is allowed, but I will still try to give the players appropriate treasure. How this will be handled I'm unsure of and I'm open to suggestions.

Action points will be used. May consider some of the variants in unearthed arcana to make it even more interesting, but that's also fuzzy at this moment.

Prestige classes, likewise limited. I'll have to take them each on a case by case basis to check for thematic appeal.

Races are humans or human-derived. Half-races, such as half-elves, half-orcs, and half-giants, will be allowed. Races that can easily pass as human such as Elan or Illumians on a case by case basis.

I expect that much buckling of swashes will ensue, and I appreciate any feedback you might have.
IdleAltruism
12-28-06, 11:46 PM It sounds fine to me. Just know as a DM you will need to do some tweaking for encounters with no casters(mainly no healer).
Krusk
12-29-06, 12:22 AM In order to balance no healing, maybe invent an alchemical drink. Very similar to a potion, but very cheap. There are versions for 10, 20, 50 and 100 hp in a flask. Have them cost something like 5 gold, 10 gold, 25 gold, and 50 gold. This will probably limit the downside of no cleric. Especially cool if the drink has some other side effect, such as a temporary int drop, or dex drop for an hour or so after.
SirCaran
12-29-06, 12:43 AM sounds good to me

i know this isnt very relevent, i have played with an idea that anyone can cast one 0-level, so many times per day, but havent written anything down
Evillain
12-29-06, 02:05 AM hey hey, i guess your looking for realism or something by geting the spell casting out. but i'm just pointing out that there are some maneuvers that are very unrealistic, like making a fire elemental appear and turning your weapon into a burning brand (both desert maneuvers)

But it's an interesting idea, being a gestalt is always nice :P but i also wanted you to know that every one IS technicly already an adept, since 1/2 your character level counts towards your martial adept level. So what you could do is give them the feat where they can choose a maneuver at every other level so they would have maneuvers but they wouldn't be gestalt (gestalt is kinda hard to manage)

Hope that helps.
The_Fan
12-29-06, 08:57 AM Very true that gestalt is hard to manage, but I find it's the best way to get my players into a particular flavor. Otherwise, it's like herding cats.

Potions will be allowed, so that will probably be a main source of healing. This also makes the bard one of the best healers.

Any unintended consequences you see cropping up from this idea?
unundindur
12-29-06, 09:27 AM This idea is so very close to what I have wanted to play both as GM and Player for a long time :)

action points, limited casting, gestalt....love it :)

In adition I would have a few rules that don't have much to do with it... scimitar=light weapon, free twf feats, maxed hp, point buy and AdnD xp (in the back of UA).

That my friend, that is something :rolleyes:
Millennium
12-29-06, 09:52 AM For a second I thought you were talking about gestalting everyone with the Adept NPC class from the DMG.

Actually, that would be kind of cool for a magic-intensive culture.
Witch
12-29-06, 11:11 AM Half-Giants aren't human derived, you know :)
The_Fan
12-29-06, 03:24 PM No? Could've sworn.

Oh well, anyway, I figured they worked for the anime "big guy."
Sphyre
12-29-06, 06:42 PM In order to balance no healing, maybe invent an alchemical drink. Very similar to a potion, but very cheap. There are versions for 10, 20, 50 and 100 hp in a flask. Have them cost something like 5 gold, 10 gold, 25 gold, and 50 gold. This will probably limit the downside of no cleric. Especially cool if the drink has some other side effect, such as a temporary int drop, or dex drop for an hour or so after.

Well there are a few ways to keep healing in without adding those potions, just inform the players that they exist.

Since you're just banning 9 level of caster classes you still have things such as bards and rogues. Bards can cast healing spells, and rogues can use wands of lesser vigor or wands of cure light wounds.

For combat healing the crusader has a number of strikes that work quite well for combat healing while dealing damage at the same time.

You can wait to see if they take care of healing first before you need to invent some new kind of healing.
Witchcraft
12-30-06, 12:20 PM No magic? *cries*............:weep: :weep: :weep:
The_Fan
12-30-06, 12:53 PM Oh, magic is there, just no full casters. Bards and artificers are among the most powerful of mages. It's lower magic, not low magic.
Evillain
12-30-06, 06:48 PM Any unintended consequences you see cropping up from this idea?

Magical weapons, armor and wondrous items. Some if not most items will not be able to be manufactured since the bard and other minor spell caster's lists are "incomplete" so you'll have to watch out for that if you want your story line to fit.

I noticed you said low magic items so that might not be a problem, but what about damage reduction? Dr X/magic will become incresingly strong (instead of a mild ability) and monster races with regen / element will also be much stronger since you cannot make as strong elemental magic.

so keep that in mind other than that I can't see anything that you won't be able to fix with a quick houserule (like high level spells as spell like abilities and such).

hope that helps.
strenoth
01-02-07, 04:20 AM Magical weapons, armor and wondrous items. Some if not most items will not be able to be manufactured since the bard and other minor spell caster's lists are "incomplete" so you'll have to watch out for that if you want your story line to fit.

I noticed you said low magic items so that might not be a problem, but what about damage reduction? Dr X/magic will become incresingly strong (instead of a mild ability) and monster races with regen / element will also be much stronger since you cannot make as strong elemental magic.

so keep that in mind other than that I can't see anything that you won't be able to fix with a quick houserule (like high level spells as spell like abilities and such).

hope that helps.

actually, artificer fixes the source of magic items issue. Artificers can fake any needed spell with a UMD check.

Who needs rogues to use UMD? have the guy who MADE the wand of CLW doing the UMD checks.
DrMorganes
01-02-07, 09:27 AM Might want to check out FASA's Earthdawn FRPG. All the characters have some form of magical ability. Last I knew the rules were clunky and poorly written, but there's enough goodness in the primary rulebook to inspire an adept-only D&D game.
The_Fan
01-02-07, 02:27 PM A new rule that I decided to give another option so not everyone is an adept. Artificers have been elevated to the same level, so everyone is either a martial adept or an artificer. Artificers get the added bonus of free firearms proficiency, however.
mkill
01-02-07, 03:20 PM I don't know, really. On the one hand, disallowing each and every full caster class is a huge nerf, while playing gestalt raises the power level again by a margin. There is not much point in gestalting anyway because if you can't have a full caster on one side and automaticly get warblade / crusader / swordsage, what do you put on the other side?
Nah, I don't like that, as it poses a lot of unforeseen problems. For example, with healing rather scarce, players might be more reluctant to do real action, because they have to look after their hp.

To increase swashbuckling, here is a different idea: Change each and every class into a possible swashbuckler.

- Remove proficiency with heavy armor and shield from every class except the fighter and knight

- give everyone proficiency with all simple weapons, rapier, buckler, and firearms

- Make climb, balance and tumble a class skill for everyone. Lower DCs for swashbuckling-type maneuvers (swinging on ropes, balancing on balconies, etc.)

- Allow players to reroll a die for an action point. If you spend an action point for a swashbuckling maneuver and succeed, you immediately regain the action point

- give feats every second level (instead of every third) and encourage players to take maneuvers and stances

- remove all spells and psionic powers above 7th level from the game (PCs *and* NPCs), as well as any items based on these. This should keep the magic level in check. There is still fantasy flavor, but no world-changing effects.
Fallenangel359
01-02-07, 08:14 PM I think it would be rather cruel to have someone that is a crusader/artificer :P

The character would have no problem healing at all. Infact, at level 17, could take a swing at someone, and gain 154hp. Thats a lot...

1d6+initiator is a level 1 maneuver.

Crusaders are energizer bunnies if given the extra granted maneuver feat. Beware :)
Seerow
01-03-07, 09:48 PM I don't get how you ban the Warlock and allow the Artificer.
unundindur
01-04-07, 08:43 AM I don't get how you ban the Warlock and allow the Artificer.

I can see that from a flavour perspective. If you want an extremely low-magic campaign the artificer would be teh logical choice, as long as one just "pretend" he doesn't cast spells into items, but rather just create extraordinary items.

The warlock though is a pretty clear caster, in that he can blast things at will.

If its not for flavour reasons I don't see the logics either :)
The_Fan
01-21-07, 09:27 AM It was certainly for flavour reasons. And most of the lower-level spells can also be BSed away into something that resembles reality.

As an update, I recruited my players into helping design my world. We're drawing up a simplified map and filing the serial numbers off everything so it still resembles rennaissance europe, but isn't.
MikeN
01-25-07, 12:11 AM Your party healer is a bard. And you need to adjust some monsters and CR levels that assume there is a full arcane and divine caster in the party.

If you don't limit what an artificer can produce VERY CLOSELY, someone can wreck the game really easily...

Sounds like an interesting concept though.
Krusk
01-25-07, 12:50 AM Just limit artificer to only being able to emulate spells from the classes that you allowed other players to pick from.
Aerunation
01-25-07, 12:55 AM Action points will be used. May consider some of the variants in unearthed arcana to make it even more interesting, but that's also fuzzy at this moment.

easily pass as human such as Elan or Illumians on a case by case basis.

...you should use the Heart-action point system from my signature! ;)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
The_Fan 12-28-06, 09:51 PM	I had an interesting campaign idea while reading Tome of Battle: Everyone's an Adept. The campaign would take place in a clockpunk and anime-influenced version of rennaissance Europe, though with any historical accuracy purely coincidental. Every PC and major NPC is gestalted with one of the martial adept classes. For multiclass purposes, the martial adept class you choose is ignored. You can't choose to double up on them though, and you have to take that class 1-20. Full casters are banned. No class with 9 levels of spells, powers, etc is allowed. This includes warlocks, dragonfire adepts, and all incarnum. Other than that, pretty much any class is allowed. Psychic warriors, ninjas, duskblades, artificers...all okay. Magic items are limited. Nothing too fantastic is allowed, but I will still try to give the players appropriate treasure. How this will be handled I'm unsure of and I'm open to suggestions. Action points will be used. May consider some of the variants in unearthed arcana to make it even more interesting, but that's also fuzzy at this moment. Prestige classes, likewise limited. I'll have to take them each on a case by case basis to check for thematic appeal. Races are humans or human-derived. Half-races, such as half-elves, half-orcs, and half-giants, will be allowed. Races that can easily pass as human such as Elan or Illumians on a case by case basis. I expect that much buckling of swashes will ensue, and I appreciate any feedback you might have.
IdleAltruism 12-28-06, 11:46 PM	It sounds fine to me. Just know as a DM you will need to do some tweaking for encounters with no casters(mainly no healer).
Krusk 12-29-06, 12:22 AM	In order to balance no healing, maybe invent an alchemical drink. Very similar to a potion, but very cheap. There are versions for 10, 20, 50 and 100 hp in a flask. Have them cost something like 5 gold, 10 gold, 25 gold, and 50 gold. This will probably limit the downside of no cleric. Especially cool if the drink has some other side effect, such as a temporary int drop, or dex drop for an hour or so after.
SirCaran 12-29-06, 12:43 AM	sounds good to me i know this isnt very relevent, i have played with an idea that anyone can cast one 0-level, so many times per day, but havent written anything down
Evillain 12-29-06, 02:05 AM	hey hey, i guess your looking for realism or something by geting the spell casting out. but i'm just pointing out that there are some maneuvers that are very unrealistic, like making a fire elemental appear and turning your weapon into a burning brand (both desert maneuvers) But it's an interesting idea, being a gestalt is always nice :P but i also wanted you to know that every one IS technicly already an adept, since 1/2 your character level counts towards your martial adept level. So what you could do is give them the feat where they can choose a maneuver at every other level so they would have maneuvers but they wouldn't be gestalt (gestalt is kinda hard to manage) Hope that helps.
The_Fan 12-29-06, 08:57 AM	Very true that gestalt is hard to manage, but I find it's the best way to get my players into a particular flavor. Otherwise, it's like herding cats. Potions will be allowed, so that will probably be a main source of healing. This also makes the bard one of the best healers. Any unintended consequences you see cropping up from this idea?
unundindur 12-29-06, 09:27 AM	This idea is so very close to what I have wanted to play both as GM and Player for a long time :) action points, limited casting, gestalt....love it :) In adition I would have a few rules that don't have much to do with it... scimitar=light weapon, free twf feats, maxed hp, point buy and AdnD xp (in the back of UA). That my friend, that is something :rolleyes:
Millennium 12-29-06, 09:52 AM	For a second I thought you were talking about gestalting everyone with the Adept NPC class from the DMG. Actually, that would be kind of cool for a magic-intensive culture.
Witch 12-29-06, 11:11 AM	Half-Giants aren't human derived, you know :)
The_Fan 12-29-06, 03:24 PM	No? Could've sworn. Oh well, anyway, I figured they worked for the anime "big guy."
Sphyre 12-29-06, 06:42 PM	In order to balance no healing, maybe invent an alchemical drink. Very similar to a potion, but very cheap. There are versions for 10, 20, 50 and 100 hp in a flask. Have them cost something like 5 gold, 10 gold, 25 gold, and 50 gold. This will probably limit the downside of no cleric. Especially cool if the drink has some other side effect, such as a temporary int drop, or dex drop for an hour or so after. Well there are a few ways to keep healing in without adding those potions, just inform the players that they exist. Since you're just banning 9 level of caster classes you still have things such as bards and rogues. Bards can cast healing spells, and rogues can use wands of lesser vigor or wands of cure light wounds. For combat healing the crusader has a number of strikes that work quite well for combat healing while dealing damage at the same time. You can wait to see if they take care of healing first before you need to invent some new kind of healing.
Witchcraft 12-30-06, 12:20 PM	No magic? cries............:weep: :weep: :weep:
The_Fan 12-30-06, 12:53 PM	Oh, magic is there, just no full casters. Bards and artificers are among the most powerful of mages. It's lower magic, not low magic.
Evillain 12-30-06, 06:48 PM	Any unintended consequences you see cropping up from this idea? Magical weapons, armor and wondrous items. Some if not most items will not be able to be manufactured since the bard and other minor spell caster's lists are "incomplete" so you'll have to watch out for that if you want your story line to fit. I noticed you said low magic items so that might not be a problem, but what about damage reduction? Dr X/magic will become incresingly strong (instead of a mild ability) and monster races with regen / element will also be much stronger since you cannot make as strong elemental magic. so keep that in mind other than that I can't see anything that you won't be able to fix with a quick houserule (like high level spells as spell like abilities and such). hope that helps.
strenoth 01-02-07, 04:20 AM	Magical weapons, armor and wondrous items. Some if not most items will not be able to be manufactured since the bard and other minor spell caster's lists are "incomplete" so you'll have to watch out for that if you want your story line to fit. I noticed you said low magic items so that might not be a problem, but what about damage reduction? Dr X/magic will become incresingly strong (instead of a mild ability) and monster races with regen / element will also be much stronger since you cannot make as strong elemental magic. so keep that in mind other than that I can't see anything that you won't be able to fix with a quick houserule (like high level spells as spell like abilities and such). hope that helps. actually, artificer fixes the source of magic items issue. Artificers can fake any needed spell with a UMD check. Who needs rogues to use UMD? have the guy who MADE the wand of CLW doing the UMD checks.
DrMorganes 01-02-07, 09:27 AM	Might want to check out FASA's Earthdawn FRPG. All the characters have some form of magical ability. Last I knew the rules were clunky and poorly written, but there's enough goodness in the primary rulebook to inspire an adept-only D&D game.
The_Fan 01-02-07, 02:27 PM	A new rule that I decided to give another option so not everyone is an adept. Artificers have been elevated to the same level, so everyone is either a martial adept or an artificer. Artificers get the added bonus of free firearms proficiency, however.
mkill 01-02-07, 03:20 PM	I don't know, really. On the one hand, disallowing each and every full caster class is a huge nerf, while playing gestalt raises the power level again by a margin. There is not much point in gestalting anyway because if you can't have a full caster on one side and automaticly get warblade / crusader / swordsage, what do you put on the other side? Nah, I don't like that, as it poses a lot of unforeseen problems. For example, with healing rather scarce, players might be more reluctant to do real action, because they have to look after their hp. To increase swashbuckling, here is a different idea: Change each and every class into a possible swashbuckler. - Remove proficiency with heavy armor and shield from every class except the fighter and knight - give everyone proficiency with all simple weapons, rapier, buckler, and firearms - Make climb, balance and tumble a class skill for everyone. Lower DCs for swashbuckling-type maneuvers (swinging on ropes, balancing on balconies, etc.) - Allow players to reroll a die for an action point. If you spend an action point for a swashbuckling maneuver and succeed, you immediately regain the action point - give feats every second level (instead of every third) and encourage players to take maneuvers and stances - remove all spells and psionic powers above 7th level from the game (PCs and NPCs), as well as any items based on these. This should keep the magic level in check. There is still fantasy flavor, but no world-changing effects.
Fallenangel359 01-02-07, 08:14 PM	I think it would be rather cruel to have someone that is a crusader/artificer :P The character would have no problem healing at all. Infact, at level 17, could take a swing at someone, and gain 154hp. Thats a lot... 1d6+initiator is a level 1 maneuver. Crusaders are energizer bunnies if given the extra granted maneuver feat. Beware :)
Seerow 01-03-07, 09:48 PM	I don't get how you ban the Warlock and allow the Artificer.
unundindur 01-04-07, 08:43 AM	I don't get how you ban the Warlock and allow the Artificer. I can see that from a flavour perspective. If you want an extremely low-magic campaign the artificer would be teh logical choice, as long as one just "pretend" he doesn't cast spells into items, but rather just create extraordinary items. The warlock though is a pretty clear caster, in that he can blast things at will. If its not for flavour reasons I don't see the logics either :)
The_Fan 01-21-07, 09:27 AM	It was certainly for flavour reasons. And most of the lower-level spells can also be BSed away into something that resembles reality. As an update, I recruited my players into helping design my world. We're drawing up a simplified map and filing the serial numbers off everything so it still resembles rennaissance europe, but isn't.
MikeN 01-25-07, 12:11 AM	Your party healer is a bard. And you need to adjust some monsters and CR levels that assume there is a full arcane and divine caster in the party. If you don't limit what an artificer can produce VERY CLOSELY, someone can wreck the game really easily... Sounds like an interesting concept though.
Krusk 01-25-07, 12:50 AM	Just limit artificer to only being able to emulate spells from the classes that you allowed other players to pick from.
Aerunation 01-25-07, 12:55 AM	Action points will be used. May consider some of the variants in unearthed arcana to make it even more interesting, but that's also fuzzy at this moment. easily pass as human such as Elan or Illumians on a case by case basis. ...you should use the Heart-action point system from my signature! ;)