Post/Author/DateTime	Post
monkeybone 11-14-04, 07:26 PM	While the idea of gestalt characters is intriguing, I don't necessarily think of it as overpowered munchkin gaming, so here are a few thoughts, if you will: Player Downsides Starting Stats: If you're using the standard point buy, the character is still bound to a few good stats, which limits his or her overall choices for a gestalt character. In this case, a character would choose a complementary role for his first class, but not necessarily a second class completely alien to the first. A overly cautious DM might even be wise to lower the ceiling on point buy a bit if he were worried about an overpowered campaign. Haste don't get around much anymore: In the case of actions, we have to remember that this is 3.5, and not 3e. Haste is gone, which means you only have one action per round. I suppose a character could use up spell slots of his second class for the quickened actions introduced in the minis handbook(not a bad idea, actually), but again, you're untimately locked into the idea that you only have so much time to do what it is that you have to do. Heal or fight, cast or smite, stun or sneak attack; it all comes down to what to do with your one action. Player Upsides The Absent Player Conundrum: Everyone misses a session from time to time, and when they do, it's always a bit hard (but not impossible) to account for what they would have done in a given session. Now you don't have to worry about that missing player's character getting creamed while he's gone, just leave him behind; you can go it alone if you like. All By Myself: Gestalt characters now allow for far more solo adventuring than before. Never hesitate to plunder that dungeon because the cleric's got your back; especially now that he's also you (how often do you get to type that one?)! No one wants to play the cleric: To reiterate, the cleric is a bummer role no matter how you slice it, and I have pulled "healing duty" more than once when I really didn't want to. That said, gestalt characters now have the option to take a second class which grants healing and STILL be able to enjoy the class they wanted in the first place. If you happen to also be a monk or a paladin, so much the better. Money for Nothing: Like many children born of the television generation, I lack a solid attention span and sometimes have trouble enjoying a single class through twenty or so levels. So, if you like to multi-task like me, now you have a variety of options not previously available to you; you can even develop split personalties to accompany your panopoly of abilities! DM downsides Obviously, it can be a drag when you have to adjust CRs til the cows come home, and some DMs prefer not to have to think of such things. So if you like a bit of extra work, Gestalt camapigns may not be for you. The low-level player as Big Cheese: As you might imagine, Gestalt campaigns sometimes make players too big for their britches early on. They throw around enough weight at level three to lay out the brawling champion of Gryrax without even breaking a sweat. Again, CR adjustments can be a pain, but that doesn't have to be a bad thing... DM Upsides Indy Reaches for an Empty Holster: Now that players can face dangerous creatures earlier on, that means they won't have their usual spells and abilities to ultilize against such foes. It can be a real challenge for players to take on a beholder two levels sooner than they normally would. Not only do the players have to rely on thinking through such encounters, they can't fall back on hit points (and other high level benefits) in the way they used to. Hey, the Bad-Guy Has a Brain After All: Additionally, the DM finally has cause to run thinking villains without having to dumb them down. He can do this with regular CRs or - gasp - adjusted CRs, which means the players will be faced with some seriously crazy challenges they may not have anticipated (note - this is not cart blanche for killer DMs, it's merely another way to enjoy things from the captain's chair). Lastly, it's different; variety is the spice of life, is it not?
Riznar 11-15-04, 02:27 AM	A downside to Gestalt (from the player's perspective) is that even though you're fighting something 1-2 CRs higher, you don't have a large increase in defense against grapple. In one of my games, my players got knocked around by a bear, now they don't go into the big blue room anymore.
Lord_Anthrax 11-15-04, 07:51 AM	I think one of the biggest differences in a Gestalt game from a normal game is endurance. A PC who takes two spellcasting classes has a LOT more spells to use in a day, without even touching magic items, than a single class spellcaster. This is where you need to not only reduce the CR of encounters, but greatly increase their number. Because if they're not fighting but two or three encounters in a 24-hour period, they have a much easier time of it, unloading their best spells right off and easily blowing away their enemies. This also affects characters who mix magic with something else. When they're out of spells, they can switch over to their other role(a Fighter-Cleric, for example, who relies mainly on Wands to do the healing and wades right in with the others when he's cast his other support spells to help do clean-up).
Sucineri 11-15-04, 07:56 AM	Or a monk-wizard who rushes upto an enemy fighter and then nails him with an energy drain. :P
Degobah 11-15-04, 10:30 PM	When you're the DM, gestalt villains are alot of fun. Its easy for a villain to be a wizard/? and the PCs can find out one class easily but with the other as a big surprise for the fight. It makes party preparation a lot harder and suspense is fun. Given enough time to build, a gestalt villain can really pack a wallop.
monkeybone 11-15-04, 10:46 PM	When you're the DM, gestalt villains are alot of fun. Its easy for a villain to be a wizard/? and the PCs can find out one class easily but with the other as a big surprise for the fight. It makes party preparation a lot harder and suspense is fun. Given enough time to build, a gestalt villain can really pack a wallop. A great point and one I overlooked. Thanks.
Lord_Anthrax 11-16-04, 08:54 AM	IMC I knock 2 off the CR of everything for the PC's being Gestalt characters, and 2 more as a way of extending the campaign's longevity. I base calculated EL off this adjusted CR to keep treasure from growing disproportionate, and never include the CR of enemies with PC class levels into the EL calculation, because their gear is their contribution to the treasure pile. For the most part they fight normal single-class enemies, or enemies that are multiclassed. I do this to emphasize the special nature of Gestalt characters as enemies, though as their levels rise they'll encounter more and more Gestalts. Something else I do with enemies to keep the challenge up is use a lot of advanced monsters, and in some cases I'll haul out Elite creatures(possessing PC-quality ability scores instead of average scores)for a +1 CR, and in other cases give them full HP for their HD for another +1 CR. For enemies with class levels(which already have Elite abilities)I'll do full HP for +1 CR, or give them PC-quality gear(as per the DMG for starting higher level PC's instead of NPC's)for another +1 CR. Sooner or later I'll pull out all stops and sling some Gestalt enemies with full HP and PC-quality gear at them. :D