Expanded Generic Classes [Archive] - Wizards Community

Expanded Generic Classes [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Corvus_Obscurus
08-12-07, 07:08 AM Having read the rules on Generic Classes in Unearthed Arcana, I modified the system a bit:

Almost all class features converted to talents
Does not run on bonus feats anymore for getting class features
Use of Magic Rating and Spell Points, as that supports the flexibility of the system

As the document has grown here (http://www.files.to/get/21353/ocbf4cdf6v) is a link to the .pdf.

It is still a WIP so any help/criticism/comments are appreciated.
bkdubs123
08-12-07, 03:44 PM Have you done any playtesting with this system? I actually rather like the idea, and by the looks of it players could come up with very interesting combinations of abilities.

I've been toying around with this same idea for a while now. The best thing that could happen to DnD is to make classes SO generic that anything can be built from them, and then just give players simple but WIDELY varying options to build their characters as they go.
Corvus_Obscurus
08-12-07, 03:59 PM The system is in the Playtesting-Phase right now

On Tuesday we'll begin with ECL 5 characters and go on to various test levels.
The aim with this system is to provide maximum flexibility...although I don't know what to do with Prestige Classes. They can stay as they are but that would leave dead levels, something that is practically eliminated in the current draft.
ppirilla
08-12-07, 06:20 PM The PDF link doesn't seem to work for me, though I think the problem is on my end.

I was working on something like this a little while ago. The biggest thing we did was use the psionics system in place of magic. You gain one spell known and a number of power points equal to your new level each level up, and talents let you learn higher spell levels and grant an additional power point per level.

As for PrC's, try making some that flesh out traditional base classes: the bard, the monk, and the specialist wizard all spring to mind, since they're hard to build from the generic classes. That was going to be my next step, but I'd run out of time to tinker with it.

When I'm on my other computer, I'll take a close look at this and give you a more thorough review.
Corvus_Obscurus
08-12-07, 06:33 PM All [well almost all] class features of the core classes are already converted into "talents". "Talent" is a generic class feature for the generic classes which allows to gain the abilities of the standard core classes if you meet the prerequisites [most of the time skill ranks].

Concerning PrCs, I'm not really fond of the idea of introducing new classes. Three [generic] classes are enough, and perhaps PrCs could be implemented as Talent trees with base requirements [the PrC reqs] for all talents?
GEEKAZOID
08-12-07, 09:27 PM I like what you have going here. I've been contemplating similar ideas. Thanks for sharing.

I don't know about magic ratings for non spellcasters. I can't justify it. What do you have in mind?
Also, I think all spellcasting abilities should be left to the spellcaster class. For instance if a player wants a ranger with spells he can multiclass warrior with spellcaster and choose divine/nature spells.
How about the prestigious classes from UA. Any interest in them. They fit perfect with the generics.

You should check out Green Ronin's BLUE ROSE campaign setting. They have done a fine job with the generic class system. They use the warrior and expert and each has path choices, and they have the adept as spellcaster which uses skill based magic. It was popular enough for them to release the universal rules version called TRUE 20.

And now there is the new Star Wars SAGA Edition which has base classes with several talent trees to choose from. Another source for ideas.

If you've already checked them, did you see anything good in them?
Corvus_Obscurus
08-13-07, 06:15 AM The idea behind the Ranger Spellcasting talents was to allow the core classes to be reconstructed. If you multiclass between Warrior and spellcaster[7 levels at that to gain access to 4th level spells] you lose a lot combat abilities, which stands in contrast to the core ranger.

Magic Rating is there to make multiclassed spellcasters playable, so if you do decide to take, for example, a few levels of expert your spells remain useful although you don't learn new spells or get any more spell points.

The prestigious classes are just another way to get to the archetypes, and as the system currently works you can reconstruct almost all archetypes from the PHB. I'm against introducing new classes to the system as that is a step away from the "generic" philosophy [and besides that it just takes too much space]

If you use the already printed classes you still have dead levels and that is also not good and probably the prestige classes' abilities are not balanced against the talents [compare the level the prestige class abilities become accessible and you see what I mean]

I only heard a bit about the SAGA edition of Starwars and TRUE 20 is missing the classical D&D feel in my eyes.
zzo38
08-14-07, 12:06 PM That is good! Possibly you could also combine it with http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/dnd/ImprovedUnearthedArcana/GenericClasses.htm
Corvus_Obscurus
08-15-07, 06:17 AM After a conversation with some folks at the local gamestore here, we came to the conclusion that prestige classes can be left as they are, because you are trading up flexibility [Choose your own class features] for stronger/more class features. Also, the DM can just add the Talent Class feature to some PrC levels for PrCs he feels don't get enough. Should work out well but we still have to test it.

I'll update the rules document [some new auras will be in there then too, for a total of around 20 auras :D ]
A major change will be the abolishment of talent trees, as Smite and Lay on Hands will be no longer dependant on Divine but on HD.
GEEKAZOID
08-18-07, 01:35 AM After a conversation with some folks at the local gamestore here, we came to the conclusion that prestige classes can be left as they are,
Actually, I reffered to prestigious classes. As in the 15 level bard class, 15 lvl ranger, 15lvl paladin as presented in Unearthed Arcana. They illustrate the how multilclassed generic classes can be used to build toward the more specific archetypes.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Corvus_Obscurus 08-12-07, 07:08 AM	Having read the rules on Generic Classes in Unearthed Arcana, I modified the system a bit: Almost all class features converted to talents Does not run on bonus feats anymore for getting class features Use of Magic Rating and Spell Points, as that supports the flexibility of the system As the document has grown here (http://www.files.to/get/21353/ocbf4cdf6v) is a link to the .pdf. It is still a WIP so any help/criticism/comments are appreciated.
bkdubs123 08-12-07, 03:44 PM	Have you done any playtesting with this system? I actually rather like the idea, and by the looks of it players could come up with very interesting combinations of abilities. I've been toying around with this same idea for a while now. The best thing that could happen to DnD is to make classes SO generic that anything can be built from them, and then just give players simple but WIDELY varying options to build their characters as they go.
Corvus_Obscurus 08-12-07, 03:59 PM	The system is in the Playtesting-Phase right now On Tuesday we'll begin with ECL 5 characters and go on to various test levels. The aim with this system is to provide maximum flexibility...although I don't know what to do with Prestige Classes. They can stay as they are but that would leave dead levels, something that is practically eliminated in the current draft.
ppirilla 08-12-07, 06:20 PM	The PDF link doesn't seem to work for me, though I think the problem is on my end. I was working on something like this a little while ago. The biggest thing we did was use the psionics system in place of magic. You gain one spell known and a number of power points equal to your new level each level up, and talents let you learn higher spell levels and grant an additional power point per level. As for PrC's, try making some that flesh out traditional base classes: the bard, the monk, and the specialist wizard all spring to mind, since they're hard to build from the generic classes. That was going to be my next step, but I'd run out of time to tinker with it. When I'm on my other computer, I'll take a close look at this and give you a more thorough review.
Corvus_Obscurus 08-12-07, 06:33 PM	All [well almost all] class features of the core classes are already converted into "talents". "Talent" is a generic class feature for the generic classes which allows to gain the abilities of the standard core classes if you meet the prerequisites [most of the time skill ranks]. Concerning PrCs, I'm not really fond of the idea of introducing new classes. Three [generic] classes are enough, and perhaps PrCs could be implemented as Talent trees with base requirements [the PrC reqs] for all talents?
GEEKAZOID 08-12-07, 09:27 PM	I like what you have going here. I've been contemplating similar ideas. Thanks for sharing. I don't know about magic ratings for non spellcasters. I can't justify it. What do you have in mind? Also, I think all spellcasting abilities should be left to the spellcaster class. For instance if a player wants a ranger with spells he can multiclass warrior with spellcaster and choose divine/nature spells. How about the prestigious classes from UA. Any interest in them. They fit perfect with the generics. You should check out Green Ronin's BLUE ROSE campaign setting. They have done a fine job with the generic class system. They use the warrior and expert and each has path choices, and they have the adept as spellcaster which uses skill based magic. It was popular enough for them to release the universal rules version called TRUE 20. And now there is the new Star Wars SAGA Edition which has base classes with several talent trees to choose from. Another source for ideas. If you've already checked them, did you see anything good in them?
Corvus_Obscurus 08-13-07, 06:15 AM	The idea behind the Ranger Spellcasting talents was to allow the core classes to be reconstructed. If you multiclass between Warrior and spellcaster[7 levels at that to gain access to 4th level spells] you lose a lot combat abilities, which stands in contrast to the core ranger. Magic Rating is there to make multiclassed spellcasters playable, so if you do decide to take, for example, a few levels of expert your spells remain useful although you don't learn new spells or get any more spell points. The prestigious classes are just another way to get to the archetypes, and as the system currently works you can reconstruct almost all archetypes from the PHB. I'm against introducing new classes to the system as that is a step away from the "generic" philosophy [and besides that it just takes too much space] If you use the already printed classes you still have dead levels and that is also not good and probably the prestige classes' abilities are not balanced against the talents [compare the level the prestige class abilities become accessible and you see what I mean] I only heard a bit about the SAGA edition of Starwars and TRUE 20 is missing the classical D&D feel in my eyes.
zzo38 08-14-07, 12:06 PM	That is good! Possibly you could also combine it with http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/dnd/ImprovedUnearthedArcana/GenericClasses.htm
Corvus_Obscurus 08-15-07, 06:17 AM	After a conversation with some folks at the local gamestore here, we came to the conclusion that prestige classes can be left as they are, because you are trading up flexibility [Choose your own class features] for stronger/more class features. Also, the DM can just add the Talent Class feature to some PrC levels for PrCs he feels don't get enough. Should work out well but we still have to test it. I'll update the rules document [some new auras will be in there then too, for a total of around 20 auras :D ] A major change will be the abolishment of talent trees, as Smite and Lay on Hands will be no longer dependant on Divine but on HD.
GEEKAZOID 08-18-07, 01:35 AM	After a conversation with some folks at the local gamestore here, we came to the conclusion that prestige classes can be left as they are, Actually, I reffered to prestigious classes. As in the 15 level bard class, 15 lvl ranger, 15lvl paladin as presented in Unearthed Arcana. They illustrate the how multilclassed generic classes can be used to build toward the more specific archetypes.