Factoring Flaws into Play [Archive] - Wizards Community

Factoring Flaws into Play [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
BrazilRascal
03-01-07, 01:19 PM I like the idea of letting players pick a flaw in order to get an extra Feat, but I dislike the ones presented so far. It's quite easy for a charger barbarian or warblade to get a tiny penatly to ranged attacks they don't intend to use anyway and walk out with a feat that lets them qualify for a juicy Prestige Class or uber-build 3 levels earlier.

Still, i can't say I play-tested it. So I'm asking those who have: how has the Flaw system affected your games?
Kradlo
03-03-07, 09:48 PM I use Flaws in my game (I have the full list of Unearthed Arcana and those in the Dragon magazine). Any player can take up to two of them in return for bonus feats.

As a GM, I make sure that sometimes the circumstances favor the players, and sometimes they work to their disadvantage. If you have a flaw, believe me it will prove a hindrance from time to time.

So, when people take the Shaky disadvantage, I will put in encounters where they have to exchange shots with the enemy.

TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch.

:D
Darth Sephiroth
03-04-07, 03:07 AM Flaws like Shaky can be nasty when dealing with highly mobile enemies. Any of the flaws can have a major effect if you keep enemies varied and include some encounters that aren't combat focused. A lot of the skill penalty ones may not come up unless you try to make them come up.

Though personally I see nothing wrong with taking flaws that don't come up in play, as long as they don't complain if you do the same with NPC's
aramilcaelvan
03-04-07, 05:32 PM I don't allow flaws. There are some pairings that turn out to hurt the person taking a flaw (for instance, the flaw that gives -6 to initiative, then improved initiative), but mainly they only make the character stronger. And I'm already using a 32 point buy, we aren't trying to reinact DBZ here.
FrostHammer
03-04-07, 05:44 PM All flaws are hurt mroe than the benefits of a feat. I see no problrm with it if the Dm is being smart about exploiting weaknesses.
Krusk
03-04-07, 06:44 PM I allow most of the flaws, some of them though, i dont allow and some i increased the penalty for.

I would suggest you look them over, and see which you are comfortable letting into your games, and which you can modify so that you are comfortable with them. Who knows, you may even think some are too harsh and cut them back.
IrishRover
03-05-07, 11:01 AM There are some flaw/feat combos that are, IMHO, broken. There's a feat--I can't recall which book it's in right now--that allows you to use your strength bonus instead of your dex bonus to hit with thrown weapons. If your strength bonus is more than 2 points better than your dex bonus, you can use "Shaky" to get the feat for free.
I think there's a lot of characers that use throwing weapons but never touch a bow--I know I have some.
And many a mage never uses any ranged attacks that require a hit roll. (I seldom use rays, nor do most of the players in my goup. It seems everyone prefers to simply blast the area with cone of cold, sonic ball, or otehr un-precise spell.
Saric
03-05-07, 11:10 AM There are some flaw/feat combos that are, IMHO, broken. There's a feat--I can't recall which book it's in right now--that allows you to use your strength bonus instead of your dex bonus to hit with thrown weapons. If your strength bonus is more than 2 points better than your dex bonus, you can use "Shaky" to get the feat for free.
I think there's a lot of characers that use throwing weapons but never touch a bow--I know I have some.

Power throw in complete adventurer its called i believe. Does it really matter that they chose that feat? the flaw still imposes a -2 to all ranged attacks which factors in no matter what stat they use for ranged attacks, strength or dexterity. -2 is still -2 at the end of the day.
Shadowfax7
03-05-07, 11:31 AM I allow up to 1 Flaw/PC IMC, but only at 1st level and to control players from choosing Flaws that don't affect them much, I require the Flaw to be rolled randomly.

This has worked fine in balancing out the bonus feat gained, which is obviously chosen by the player.
Einvaldurinn_mikli
03-05-07, 11:58 AM I allow up to 1 Flaw/PC IMC, but only at 1st level and to control players from choosing Flaws that don't affect them much, I require the Flaw to be rolled randomly.

This has worked fine in balancing out the bonus feat gained, which is obviously chosen by the player.

Thing is, the flaw has a larger drawback precisely because players pick the one that affects them the least. This is a pretty bad deal.
Melpomene
03-05-07, 12:23 PM I give players access to one flaw, and it's so tempting most of them take it. It has to do with Truenames. It's a complete DM toolbox that lets me controll them like puppets, if I have to...
Shadowfax7
03-05-07, 01:19 PM Thing is, the flaw has a larger drawback precisely because players pick the one that affects them the least. This is a pretty bad deal.I disagree.

A smart player can easily choose a Flaw that will not impact his PC's abilities. All Flaws are not more powerful than all feats. A player doesn't need to take a Flaw, the only reason they would is to get a bonus feat which they wouldn't be entitled to anyway by the rules in the core books.
Darth Sephiroth
03-05-07, 02:54 PM I disagree.

A smart player can easily choose a Flaw that will not impact his PC's abilities. All Flaws are not more powerful than all feats. A player doesn't need to take a Flaw, the only reason they would is to get a bonus feat which they wouldn't be entitled to anyway by the rules in the core books.

The effect may not mess with their strengths, but it opens up new doors for smacking the party around with. Flaws are more damaging than the feat you get in the hands of a DM who has glanced over his players sheets. Flaws make the character more powerful in some ways while weaker in others.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
BrazilRascal 03-01-07, 01:19 PM	I like the idea of letting players pick a flaw in order to get an extra Feat, but I dislike the ones presented so far. It's quite easy for a charger barbarian or warblade to get a tiny penatly to ranged attacks they don't intend to use anyway and walk out with a feat that lets them qualify for a juicy Prestige Class or uber-build 3 levels earlier. Still, i can't say I play-tested it. So I'm asking those who have: how has the Flaw system affected your games?
Kradlo 03-03-07, 09:48 PM	I use Flaws in my game (I have the full list of Unearthed Arcana and those in the Dragon magazine). Any player can take up to two of them in return for bonus feats. As a GM, I make sure that sometimes the circumstances favor the players, and sometimes they work to their disadvantage. If you have a flaw, believe me it will prove a hindrance from time to time. So, when people take the Shaky disadvantage, I will put in encounters where they have to exchange shots with the enemy. TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch. :D
Darth Sephiroth 03-04-07, 03:07 AM	Flaws like Shaky can be nasty when dealing with highly mobile enemies. Any of the flaws can have a major effect if you keep enemies varied and include some encounters that aren't combat focused. A lot of the skill penalty ones may not come up unless you try to make them come up. Though personally I see nothing wrong with taking flaws that don't come up in play, as long as they don't complain if you do the same with NPC's
aramilcaelvan 03-04-07, 05:32 PM	I don't allow flaws. There are some pairings that turn out to hurt the person taking a flaw (for instance, the flaw that gives -6 to initiative, then improved initiative), but mainly they only make the character stronger. And I'm already using a 32 point buy, we aren't trying to reinact DBZ here.
FrostHammer 03-04-07, 05:44 PM	All flaws are hurt mroe than the benefits of a feat. I see no problrm with it if the Dm is being smart about exploiting weaknesses.
Krusk 03-04-07, 06:44 PM	I allow most of the flaws, some of them though, i dont allow and some i increased the penalty for. I would suggest you look them over, and see which you are comfortable letting into your games, and which you can modify so that you are comfortable with them. Who knows, you may even think some are too harsh and cut them back.
IrishRover 03-05-07, 11:01 AM	There are some flaw/feat combos that are, IMHO, broken. There's a feat--I can't recall which book it's in right now--that allows you to use your strength bonus instead of your dex bonus to hit with thrown weapons. If your strength bonus is more than 2 points better than your dex bonus, you can use "Shaky" to get the feat for free. I think there's a lot of characers that use throwing weapons but never touch a bow--I know I have some. And many a mage never uses any ranged attacks that require a hit roll. (I seldom use rays, nor do most of the players in my goup. It seems everyone prefers to simply blast the area with cone of cold, sonic ball, or otehr un-precise spell.
Saric 03-05-07, 11:10 AM	There are some flaw/feat combos that are, IMHO, broken. There's a feat--I can't recall which book it's in right now--that allows you to use your strength bonus instead of your dex bonus to hit with thrown weapons. If your strength bonus is more than 2 points better than your dex bonus, you can use "Shaky" to get the feat for free. I think there's a lot of characers that use throwing weapons but never touch a bow--I know I have some. Power throw in complete adventurer its called i believe. Does it really matter that they chose that feat? the flaw still imposes a -2 to all ranged attacks which factors in no matter what stat they use for ranged attacks, strength or dexterity. -2 is still -2 at the end of the day.
Shadowfax7 03-05-07, 11:31 AM	I allow up to 1 Flaw/PC IMC, but only at 1st level and to control players from choosing Flaws that don't affect them much, I require the Flaw to be rolled randomly. This has worked fine in balancing out the bonus feat gained, which is obviously chosen by the player.
Einvaldurinn_mikli 03-05-07, 11:58 AM	I allow up to 1 Flaw/PC IMC, but only at 1st level and to control players from choosing Flaws that don't affect them much, I require the Flaw to be rolled randomly. This has worked fine in balancing out the bonus feat gained, which is obviously chosen by the player. Thing is, the flaw has a larger drawback precisely because players pick the one that affects them the least. This is a pretty bad deal.
Melpomene 03-05-07, 12:23 PM	I give players access to one flaw, and it's so tempting most of them take it. It has to do with Truenames. It's a complete DM toolbox that lets me controll them like puppets, if I have to...
Shadowfax7 03-05-07, 01:19 PM	Thing is, the flaw has a larger drawback precisely because players pick the one that affects them the least. This is a pretty bad deal.I disagree. A smart player can easily choose a Flaw that will not impact his PC's abilities. All Flaws are not more powerful than all feats. A player doesn't need to take a Flaw, the only reason they would is to get a bonus feat which they wouldn't be entitled to anyway by the rules in the core books.
Darth Sephiroth 03-05-07, 02:54 PM	I disagree. A smart player can easily choose a Flaw that will not impact his PC's abilities. All Flaws are not more powerful than all feats. A player doesn't need to take a Flaw, the only reason they would is to get a bonus feat which they wouldn't be entitled to anyway by the rules in the core books. The effect may not mess with their strengths, but it opens up new doors for smacking the party around with. Flaws are more damaging than the feat you get in the hands of a DM who has glanced over his players sheets. Flaws make the character more powerful in some ways while weaker in others.