Factotum Variations, I need advice also. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Factotum Variations, I need advice also. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
zzo38
09-29-07, 11:14 AM This is a list of a few things I would like to change on Factotum class (in Dungeonscape):
Inspiration: I don't like the per encounter stuff. It should be a certain number per day. (Should it be the listed number x4? or x3? or twice your level? or something else entirely?)
Arcane dilettante: You should have to learn spells instead of automatically knowing all (but you still have to prepare spells from the ones you know, as normal). You know all 0 level sor/wiz spells, and you learn 2+Int modifier spells at each level. In addition, observing someone cast a spell from the sor/wiz list makes you automatically learn it, casting the spell from a scroll lets you learn it, and you can decipher a spell book to automatically learn all the spells contained within. If you are multiclassed, all spells from other classes that are on the sor/wiz list you also automatically know as a factotum as well.
Cunning brilliance: The ability should be used as if you were 15th level in the corresponding class, because those are the abilities you are allowed to choose from. It just seems to make more sense this way. Also you should have to learn these abilities in a similar way to learning spells.
Dead levels: Maybe these dead levels (level 6 and level 18) should be filled in with something, to make the game more interesting. Would bonus feats be too much?
KnH
09-29-07, 09:16 PM Amusing thing. You gain a number of Inspiration points each encounter. However, you don't seem to lose them at all, and it doesn't state a max at any point. So, if you don't use the Inspiration points, you end up with a crazy number.
However, if you interpret the rules as meaning at the start of each encounter you have X number of inspiration points (losing any unused), then its really hard to convert to per day. It would be way too easy to use up them all in one or two encounters. You also have to think about the feat given online that increases the number of Inspiration points added each encounter (can't remember where, but someone will probably link you if you want to know).

I'd say that it would probably be best if you keep the per encounter, but you need to define what constitutes an encounter- if another group of enemies joins the fight, is it the same encounter or a new one? If you kill them all and more jump in just as they're dead, is that a new encounter? Is a trap an encounter? Social encounters? Is roleplaying buying some food an encounter?

Basically, where does one encounter end and the next begin?

If you really, really want to have per day, then you need to stop them using them all up in one go. Maybe an Inspiration pool equal to 4×the stated number, you can hold a max at any one point of the stated number, and it takes a minute of uninterrupted concentration to take points from the pool.

If you want to learn spells, then learning spells from other casters is a cool idea, but it may be a good idea to have some sort of check- say, a Spellcraft check to identify it with a -5 circumstance penalty, or a +5 bonus if the caster is trying to teach you it. So, learning a spell is linked to identifying it, but its harder to learn a Silenced or Still spell than one in plain sight. Actually, I really like that...
Also, 2+Int is more than either Sorcerers or Wizards learn per level, and the Factotum should definitely not be better at knowing spells than them.

Finally, if your adding things into dead levels, then you really ought to add stuff in for all the other classes dead levels. Bonus feats are a whole lot better than the fillers suggested in the online article. Apart from maybe Seduction...
Its probably simpler just to leave them.
zzo38
09-29-07, 11:36 PM .... Maybe an Inspiration pool equal to 4×the stated number, you can hold a max at any one point of the stated number, and it takes a minute of uninterrupted concentration to take points from the pool.
Very good. I think this makes a lot of sense. In a 4 encounters game, it is close to the original, and you don't even have to worry about what constitutes an encounter. If you have less than four encounters per day, . Now I can use inspiration points outside of an encounter.

If you want to learn spells, then learning spells from other casters is a cool idea, but it may be a good idea to have some sort of check- say, a Spellcraft check to identify it with a -5 circumstance penalty, or a +5 bonus if the caster is trying to teach you it. So, learning a spell is linked to identifying it, but its harder to learn a Silenced or Still spell than one in plain sight. Actually, I really like that...
Also, 2+Int is more than either Sorcerers or Wizards learn per level, and the Factotum should definitely not be better at knowing spells than them.
I know 2+Int mod is a lot, but I wanted to make it close to the way it already is written in the book, so that it does not lose too much of the power it has. Although I could just make it 2 per level instead (as a wizard does, and you still know less spells than a wizard because you start learning spells at a higher class level), and allow you to learn more in the ways I wrote (and how you wrote, it is good, make a check for it, maybe -2 penalty for non-verbal, -2 penalty for non-somatic, both in addition to the -5 circumstance penalty). Maybe 2 per level makes it more interesting in carefully selecting spells to learn, ya I will do 2 per level.
FponkDamn
10-04-07, 06:02 AM A LOT of people's issues with Inspiration Points comes from the fact that they don't understand that all of the Factotum's abilities are already x/day. Keep that in mind. People have this crazy idea that if a Factotum gets in 1,000 encounters in a day he will somehow be more powerful, but this is completely false. He can still only cast a few spells a day, heal 3 per day, etc. He can only up a skill check once per day (per skill) so even if roleplaying buying food is an encounter, it doesn't mean he can add his level to his diplomacy check every time. So keep in mind that the ONLY thing you can use IPs for in an unlimited manner is fighting (bonuses to attack, damage, saves, what have you). So changing the manner in which you get points is... pointless.

However, many people seem to dislike the whole "points per encounter" system. I love it, but I can understand people not liking a system that seems to fly in the face of the model for every other class (ToB & Warlocks excluded). So instead of overhauling the points, get rid of them! Consider the following variant to the entire Inspiration Point system:

Take every ability that a Factotum has at x/day (healing, spells, bonus to a skill, etc.) and remove the point cost. They now function like every other /day ability any class has. For each ability that the Factotum can do as much as he/she wants (as long as points are available) use the following single ability -

Inspiration (Ex): Once per day at level 1, a Factotum can be inspired to solve problems in a cunning and heroic way. Activating Inspiration is a free action, though it can be done only on your turn. Inspiration lasts a number of rounds equal to your Intelligence Modifier. While you are Inspired, you automatically add your Intelligence bonus to every roll that the Inspiration class features for your level would normally let you spend points for. So, instead of being able to add your Int to an attack roll for a point, you just add Int to all your attack rolls - but only for a few rounds per day. When you get the ability to add your Int to AC for a point, it's added all the time while Inspired. When you get the ability to spend points to gain sneak attack, you simply have Sneak Attack +[Int]d6 while Inspired. When you gain the ability to spend points to overcome DR/SR, you just always do while Inspired. When you gain the ability to mimic class abilities, you just have the chosen class abilities while Inspired. When you gain the ability to take extra standard actions, instead you gain that ability once per Inspiration use. In this way, Inspiration functions much like Rage (except with no penalties/aftereffects). The Factotum can become Inspired one additional time/day at level 6, 12, and 18 (gets rid of dead levels). Create feats that affect Inspiration that mirror the ones that affect Rage (such as Extra Inspiration, Extend Inspiration, etc. to replace the loss of the Font of Inspiration feat).

In addition to getting rid of the points entirely (which you seem to want to do), this makes the class very playable and balanced without creating weird point rules. They are very powerful while Inspired (much as a Barbarian is very powerful while Raging) but don't have the option to pick and choose where their points are spent, and can be "worn down" like the other classes, which many DMs find comfortable. They also retain all of their fun and fluff, as they are suddenly struck with a bolt of inspiration, a brilliant idea, or an epiphany. Note that the duration of Inspiration is intentionally short - it's a bit better than rage in many cases, so the Factotum should get it fewer times/day and have a shorter duration. This keeps the flavor/crunch interaction of the Factotum being very good in short fights, but not as great in long ones.

If you want a neat drawback to Inspiration (rage does have a few, after all), make it this - at the beginning of each encounter, have the Factotum make an Intelligence check, DC 20. If he/she makes it, she automatically becomes Inspired - they just can't help but have great ideas sometimes! Needless to say, this uses up one of the per/day uses of Inspiration (if none are left, this doesn't happen; even geniuses can run out of ideas sometimes). At level 20 (when a Barbarian stops being fatigued from Rage), the Factotum no longer has to make this check.

Try it out, I think you'll like it.

The variation on learning spells is cool, though. I like the idea of seeing someone cast a spell and then figuring it out. We use a similar variant in our group - the Factotum can only cast spells he's seen THAT DAY (by the next day, he's lost the idea of it, being not a professional wizard) but he doesn't have to fill his slots ahead of time - a Factotum can just use his slots like a Sorcerer, with an effective "Spells Known" of any spell he's seen cast that day (or read from a Scroll, etc.). Makes them feel more "off the cuff" if you will.

The difference in Cunning Brilliance at that level will be negligible anyway. You might as well leave it alone, since it is their crowning ability. Generally, crowning abilities of classes are meant to be fun, and arbitrarily cutting their power isn't.

They don't really have "dead levels" since at those levels some other aspect increases, but filling in those levels is certainly fine. Don't do anything too powerful, but something in flavor would be fine. Maybe they just get Open Minded as a bonus feat at those levels? That's a feat that gives you 5 Skill Points, perfectly cool for the class. You could also just give them a choice of any Skill Trick at those levels (from Complete Scoundrel). Both of those options are not very powerful, but fit the flavor of the class well. Or you could just go with the Inspiration variant above, which fixes the problem.

Anyway, good luck!

- Johnny
FponkDamn
10-10-07, 02:06 AM I was actually kind of hoping someone would have some feedback on this - I thought it was an okay idea. Any thoughts, anyone?

- Johnny
AnonymouseRex
10-14-07, 12:53 AM If someone wanted to post the OGC of this class I could weigh in. Johnny?

Note: It is ok to post the rules regarding the factum.
Remember to excise the flavor text, and alls well.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
zzo38 09-29-07, 11:14 AM	This is a list of a few things I would like to change on Factotum class (in Dungeonscape): Inspiration: I don't like the per encounter stuff. It should be a certain number per day. (Should it be the listed number x4? or x3? or twice your level? or something else entirely?) Arcane dilettante: You should have to learn spells instead of automatically knowing all (but you still have to prepare spells from the ones you know, as normal). You know all 0 level sor/wiz spells, and you learn 2+Int modifier spells at each level. In addition, observing someone cast a spell from the sor/wiz list makes you automatically learn it, casting the spell from a scroll lets you learn it, and you can decipher a spell book to automatically learn all the spells contained within. If you are multiclassed, all spells from other classes that are on the sor/wiz list you also automatically know as a factotum as well. Cunning brilliance: The ability should be used as if you were 15th level in the corresponding class, because those are the abilities you are allowed to choose from. It just seems to make more sense this way. Also you should have to learn these abilities in a similar way to learning spells. Dead levels: Maybe these dead levels (level 6 and level 18) should be filled in with something, to make the game more interesting. Would bonus feats be too much?
KnH 09-29-07, 09:16 PM	Amusing thing. You gain a number of Inspiration points each encounter. However, you don't seem to lose them at all, and it doesn't state a max at any point. So, if you don't use the Inspiration points, you end up with a crazy number. However, if you interpret the rules as meaning at the start of each encounter you have X number of inspiration points (losing any unused), then its really hard to convert to per day. It would be way too easy to use up them all in one or two encounters. You also have to think about the feat given online that increases the number of Inspiration points added each encounter (can't remember where, but someone will probably link you if you want to know). I'd say that it would probably be best if you keep the per encounter, but you need to define what constitutes an encounter- if another group of enemies joins the fight, is it the same encounter or a new one? If you kill them all and more jump in just as they're dead, is that a new encounter? Is a trap an encounter? Social encounters? Is roleplaying buying some food an encounter? Basically, where does one encounter end and the next begin? If you really, really want to have per day, then you need to stop them using them all up in one go. Maybe an Inspiration pool equal to 4×the stated number, you can hold a max at any one point of the stated number, and it takes a minute of uninterrupted concentration to take points from the pool. If you want to learn spells, then learning spells from other casters is a cool idea, but it may be a good idea to have some sort of check- say, a Spellcraft check to identify it with a -5 circumstance penalty, or a +5 bonus if the caster is trying to teach you it. So, learning a spell is linked to identifying it, but its harder to learn a Silenced or Still spell than one in plain sight. Actually, I really like that... Also, 2+Int is more than either Sorcerers or Wizards learn per level, and the Factotum should definitely not be better at knowing spells than them. Finally, if your adding things into dead levels, then you really ought to add stuff in for all the other classes dead levels. Bonus feats are a whole lot better than the fillers suggested in the online article. Apart from maybe Seduction... Its probably simpler just to leave them.
zzo38 09-29-07, 11:36 PM	.... Maybe an Inspiration pool equal to 4×the stated number, you can hold a max at any one point of the stated number, and it takes a minute of uninterrupted concentration to take points from the pool. Very good. I think this makes a lot of sense. In a 4 encounters game, it is close to the original, and you don't even have to worry about what constitutes an encounter. If you have less than four encounters per day, . Now I can use inspiration points outside of an encounter. If you want to learn spells, then learning spells from other casters is a cool idea, but it may be a good idea to have some sort of check- say, a Spellcraft check to identify it with a -5 circumstance penalty, or a +5 bonus if the caster is trying to teach you it. So, learning a spell is linked to identifying it, but its harder to learn a Silenced or Still spell than one in plain sight. Actually, I really like that... Also, 2+Int is more than either Sorcerers or Wizards learn per level, and the Factotum should definitely not be better at knowing spells than them. I know 2+Int mod is a lot, but I wanted to make it close to the way it already is written in the book, so that it does not lose too much of the power it has. Although I could just make it 2 per level instead (as a wizard does, and you still know less spells than a wizard because you start learning spells at a higher class level), and allow you to learn more in the ways I wrote (and how you wrote, it is good, make a check for it, maybe -2 penalty for non-verbal, -2 penalty for non-somatic, both in addition to the -5 circumstance penalty). Maybe 2 per level makes it more interesting in carefully selecting spells to learn, ya I will do 2 per level.
FponkDamn 10-04-07, 06:02 AM	A LOT of people's issues with Inspiration Points comes from the fact that they don't understand that all of the Factotum's abilities are already x/day. Keep that in mind. People have this crazy idea that if a Factotum gets in 1,000 encounters in a day he will somehow be more powerful, but this is completely false. He can still only cast a few spells a day, heal 3 per day, etc. He can only up a skill check once per day (per skill) so even if roleplaying buying food is an encounter, it doesn't mean he can add his level to his diplomacy check every time. So keep in mind that the ONLY thing you can use IPs for in an unlimited manner is fighting (bonuses to attack, damage, saves, what have you). So changing the manner in which you get points is... pointless. However, many people seem to dislike the whole "points per encounter" system. I love it, but I can understand people not liking a system that seems to fly in the face of the model for every other class (ToB & Warlocks excluded). So instead of overhauling the points, get rid of them! Consider the following variant to the entire Inspiration Point system: Take every ability that a Factotum has at x/day (healing, spells, bonus to a skill, etc.) and remove the point cost. They now function like every other /day ability any class has. For each ability that the Factotum can do as much as he/she wants (as long as points are available) use the following single ability - Inspiration (Ex): Once per day at level 1, a Factotum can be inspired to solve problems in a cunning and heroic way. Activating Inspiration is a free action, though it can be done only on your turn. Inspiration lasts a number of rounds equal to your Intelligence Modifier. While you are Inspired, you automatically add your Intelligence bonus to every roll that the Inspiration class features for your level would normally let you spend points for. So, instead of being able to add your Int to an attack roll for a point, you just add Int to all your attack rolls - but only for a few rounds per day. When you get the ability to add your Int to AC for a point, it's added all the time while Inspired. When you get the ability to spend points to gain sneak attack, you simply have Sneak Attack +[Int]d6 while Inspired. When you gain the ability to spend points to overcome DR/SR, you just always do while Inspired. When you gain the ability to mimic class abilities, you just have the chosen class abilities while Inspired. When you gain the ability to take extra standard actions, instead you gain that ability once per Inspiration use. In this way, Inspiration functions much like Rage (except with no penalties/aftereffects). The Factotum can become Inspired one additional time/day at level 6, 12, and 18 (gets rid of dead levels). Create feats that affect Inspiration that mirror the ones that affect Rage (such as Extra Inspiration, Extend Inspiration, etc. to replace the loss of the Font of Inspiration feat). In addition to getting rid of the points entirely (which you seem to want to do), this makes the class very playable and balanced without creating weird point rules. They are very powerful while Inspired (much as a Barbarian is very powerful while Raging) but don't have the option to pick and choose where their points are spent, and can be "worn down" like the other classes, which many DMs find comfortable. They also retain all of their fun and fluff, as they are suddenly struck with a bolt of inspiration, a brilliant idea, or an epiphany. Note that the duration of Inspiration is intentionally short - it's a bit better than rage in many cases, so the Factotum should get it fewer times/day and have a shorter duration. This keeps the flavor/crunch interaction of the Factotum being very good in short fights, but not as great in long ones. If you want a neat drawback to Inspiration (rage does have a few, after all), make it this - at the beginning of each encounter, have the Factotum make an Intelligence check, DC 20. If he/she makes it, she automatically becomes Inspired - they just can't help but have great ideas sometimes! Needless to say, this uses up one of the per/day uses of Inspiration (if none are left, this doesn't happen; even geniuses can run out of ideas sometimes). At level 20 (when a Barbarian stops being fatigued from Rage), the Factotum no longer has to make this check. Try it out, I think you'll like it. The variation on learning spells is cool, though. I like the idea of seeing someone cast a spell and then figuring it out. We use a similar variant in our group - the Factotum can only cast spells he's seen THAT DAY (by the next day, he's lost the idea of it, being not a professional wizard) but he doesn't have to fill his slots ahead of time - a Factotum can just use his slots like a Sorcerer, with an effective "Spells Known" of any spell he's seen cast that day (or read from a Scroll, etc.). Makes them feel more "off the cuff" if you will. The difference in Cunning Brilliance at that level will be negligible anyway. You might as well leave it alone, since it is their crowning ability. Generally, crowning abilities of classes are meant to be fun, and arbitrarily cutting their power isn't. They don't really have "dead levels" since at those levels some other aspect increases, but filling in those levels is certainly fine. Don't do anything too powerful, but something in flavor would be fine. Maybe they just get Open Minded as a bonus feat at those levels? That's a feat that gives you 5 Skill Points, perfectly cool for the class. You could also just give them a choice of any Skill Trick at those levels (from Complete Scoundrel). Both of those options are not very powerful, but fit the flavor of the class well. Or you could just go with the Inspiration variant above, which fixes the problem. Anyway, good luck! - Johnny
FponkDamn 10-10-07, 02:06 AM	I was actually kind of hoping someone would have some feedback on this - I thought it was an okay idea. Any thoughts, anyone? - Johnny
AnonymouseRex 10-14-07, 12:53 AM	If someone wanted to post the OGC of this class I could weigh in. Johnny? Note: It is ok to post the rules regarding the factum. Remember to excise the flavor text, and alls well.