Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Voran 12-05-07, 02:29 AM	I've been toying around with this idea, and was wondering what people would consider as 'fair trade' for a Paladin to lose, in order to gain crusader style maneuvers/stances and basically the related format for a Crusader, without completely abandoning all the base abils of a Paladin and becoming just a crusader. I was thinking, by losing Lay on Hands, Disease Healing, and Spells, would that be enough to gain the styles/stances/etc? Or would there need to be more?
kuonji 12-05-07, 07:09 AM	It might be easier to ask yourself which paladin abilities you want to keep and if there is a way to apply them to a crusader.
R4za 12-05-07, 08:48 AM	A paladin's class features aren't much better than a crusader's class features as it is, just a bit more bottom-heavy. Take away the paladin's spells, spread out the major class features more evenly over the levels, delaying some of the nice ones so the class feature progression looks more like the crusader's, and you should be fine adding the C's maneuver and stance progression. At least, if you compare the power to a normal crusader. If you compare it to a normal paladin it'll be significantly more powerful.
navar100 12-09-07, 08:04 PM	Really if you are wont to do this, just play a crusader. Obviously there are mechanical differences between paladin and crusader, but they are equivalent enough. They do almost the same things in different ways. Paladins have Lay On hands. Crusaders have healings strikes. Paladins Smite Evil. Crusaders Smite anything. Paladins cast buff spells. Crusaders use White Raven. Paladins have Divine Grace. Crusaders add CH to will and can reroll a saving throw. Paladins can use mounted feats for bonded mount. Crusaders use charge maneuvers.
Sinfire Titan 12-09-07, 09:16 PM	Really if you are wont to do this, just play a crusader. Obviously there are mechanical differences between paladin and crusader, but they are equivalent enough. They do almost the same things in different ways. Paladins have Lay On hands. Crusaders have healings strikes. Paladins Smite Evil. Crusaders Smite anything. Paladins cast buff spells. Crusaders use White Raven. Paladins have Divine Grace. Crusaders add CH to will and can reroll a saving throw. Paladins can use mounted feats for bonded mount. Crusaders use charge maneuvers. Crusaders also have Heal, at will, every time they fight something that opposes their alignment, which is strictly superior to Lay on Hands. They also can take it in the ass for several minutes in combat, and they have the Stance of Immortal Fortitude. And they can take a feat to gain the Ranger's animal companion, which can double as a mount. Crusaders also don't need a feat to allow their weapon to overcome alignment DR. The only thing Pally's get that Crusaders don't is Turn Undead.
Voran 12-10-07, 02:36 AM	Thanks for the input. Yknow, I guess its the old-school player in me, but I'm almost conditioned to think "Paladin" when I go 'holy warrior'. Consequently when things like Holy Warrior, or Crusader or whatever comes out, I'm always inclined to think Paladin first. Its still a tough call for me, because I like things like ...pretty much all the abilities in the first 3 levels of Paladin. Though I suppose in this case dipping 3 levels into Paladin then going Crusader might be an option.