Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ovinnik 12-03-06, 12:32 AM	I'm sort of planning a very low-magic, dark-ages style game, and I'm trying to come up with a good magic system. I won't go into all the various alternate rules I'll be using for everything else, but I want to run my spellcasting idea past everyone. First off, there are no spellcasting classes available. All casting will be feat based. Here's what I have so far: All spells are considered arcane, no matter what list they are taken from. Spells can be cast in light armor with no chance of arcane spell failure. Medium/heavy armor and shields all inflict their normal chance of spell failure. Spells can be freely selected from the Bard, Cleric, Druid, and Sorcerer/Wizard spell lists. Caster level equals ½ character level. When a character takes the Apprentice feat, they must choose Int, Wis, or Cha, which is from then on counted as their primary spellcasting ability. All spells are cast spontaneously, costing a number of mana points depending on the spell level: Mana Cost 0th/1st-level: 1 2nd-level: 3 3rd-level: 5 4th-level: 7 Mana is regenerated at a rate of 1 every 10-minutes of rest and meditation. Knowledge (Arcana) is a cross-class skill for all classes, and it is impossible to be gained as class-skill. Feats Apprentice Prerequisite: Primary spellcasting ability 12+; Knowledge (Arcana) 2 ranks Benefit: Two 0th-level spells of choice One 1st-level spell of choice 3 + the modifier of your chosen spellcasting ability (Int, Wis, or Cha) mana points Journeyman Prerequisite: Apprentice; Primary spellcasting ability 14+; Knowledge (Arcana) 4 ranks Benefit: One additional 0th-level spell of choice One additional 1st-level spell of choice One 2nd-level spell of choice 4 additional mana points Master Prerequisite: Journeyman; Primary spellcasting ability 16+; Knowledge (Arcana) 6 ranks Benefit: One additional 0th-level spell of choice One additional 1st-level spell of choice One additional 2nd-level spell of choice One 3rd-level spell of choice 5 additional mana points Grandmaster Prerequisite: Master; Primary spellcasting ability 18+; Knowledge (Arcana) 8 ranks Benefit: One additional 0th-level spell of choice One additional 1st-level spell of choice One additional 2nd-level spell of choice One additional 3rd-level spell of choice One 4th-level spell of choice 6 additional mana points Power Prerequisite: Grandmaster Benefit: One additional spell of choice, of any level up to 4th 6 additional mana points Special: This feat can be taken multiple times. The feat names are kinda sucky, but it's all I have so far. So, comments, suggestions, ideas?
mkill 12-03-06, 09:46 AM	So you basicly left choices to Fighter, Rogue, Barbarian, Monk, and maybe non-caster Ranger and Paladin... I guess players won't care much about your spellcasting feats and concentrate on optimizing their non-caster characters, but that's a guess. It depends on details, like does your feat magic come with arcane spell failure chance? Is there any class with Knowledge (arcana) class skill? If there is, a feat-based human spellcaster could do 4th level spells at 6th character level, not bad. His 22 mana (ability 18) would be very limiting, though. Since you hinted at a whole heap of houserules that come with it... I guess there won't be much of D&D left in this campaign. While the idea of a dark ages low magic setting is nice, D&D is not made for this. Any campaign beyond 5th level is dominated by magic in some form. Not only on the player's side, monsters will be more and more spellcasters too. Or do you intend to monopolize spellcasting on your side? I you are far better off going to your FLGS (friendly local gaming store) and look for something completely different. You might be even better off to adapt D20 Modern (no spellcasting by definition) and set it back to the middle ages. Did you consider limiting spellcasting to prestige classes? Another thing you can do is allow normal classes, but cut of the highest spell levels. In a world, where there are no spells above 6th level, many things high-level D&D characters take for granted are impossible. Wish and True Ressurection for example. Or Prismatic Walls. A Heal spell would be impressive magic, probably wielded by a few select Saints only.
Ovinnik 12-03-06, 11:25 AM	Most of the houserules are things like Vitality/Wound points, Armor as DR, and other rules from UA that add more "realism" The entire campaign would be very-low or no-magic. No magic items, not many magical "monsters", and no classes (or PrCs) with any spellcasting or large numbers of spell-like/supernatural abilities. So no monks (they don't really fit the setting, anyway). As I mentioned in my post, all spells can be cast in light armor with no penalty, but anything heavier incurs the normal arcane spell failure. Also, like I mentioned, there are NO classes with Knowledge (Arcana) as a class skill, and it's impossible to gain it as a class skill. It represents esoteric arcana knowledge that's hard to come by. And yes, that means that a character can't get 4th level spells until 13th level. Obviously, without magic the EL/CR rules would be thrown out the window. I'd have to do some serious playtesting of anything I throw at the PCs, and give out ad-hoc XP awards. And while the PCs might encounter strange monsters, most will be more physical-oriented than magical. In a world lacking in all things magical, with the exception of a few people with the magical training feats, the few spells gained from those feats could be very powerful. For example, most non-spellcasting classes have low Will saves, so someone with a measly 1st-level Charm Person spell could go a long way. And with mana regenerating every 10-minutes of rest, even though characters will have fewer spells per-encounter, they can often be ready to go again by the next encounter. See, unlike normal D&D, I want the focus of the game to not be on the magic. Clerics, druids, and wizards always dominate, and characters at high levels rely more on their equipment than their abilities. Putting a cap on spell level might work, but then people would just end up playing sorcerer 10 / wizard 10, or some other combo that gives lots of low-level spells since they can't get the higher. Honestly, I would be happy with just a low-magic-item game, but it's impossible to do that without seriously nerfing/removing all spellcasting classes. Like this. With the feats, can get a little bit of magical ability, but to get really powerful (and Evard's Black Tentacles vs. a 20th-level Fighter without any magical items IS powerful) they have to use a lot of feats, and really dedicate themselves to the Path.
Valoy_Muniz 12-04-06, 03:16 PM	One think I think is they should also get at lest .5 point of mana / level or 1 mana per point in Knowledge (Arcana). Also rember at the much redued rate of spells even the fighter will make the save pritty quickly as the Dc for a charm person would only be like 14 verses even a fighter would be close to 50/50 if there wis is 18 at level one (yes I know fighter would not put a 18 there but still.) Also since they will have to drain all there feats just to do this may I recomend you give them something like sudden emporment 1 a day/feat. This will make the low level spells dageres at lest once a day other wise how scared would the fighter be of some one that spent all the feats in this verse the same person that spent all the feats and skill in almost anything else.
Bruunwald 12-04-06, 03:32 PM	I would not make all the spells arcane. Some other feats, abilities, effects, monsters, etc., require a different magic type. Just have the PC declare the type at the time he takes the feat. As for the notion itself, I was kicking around something similar when I was working on a d20 Modern horror campaign, based on Call of Cthulhu. I wanted to incorporate some psionics, but didn't want to use psionic classes. Basically, what I ended up doing, was taking the existing Psychic Feats from the CofC rulebook, and creating a feat tree from various prerequisite combinations of feats. Each feat was based on the basic power of the one before it, and gave a small number of abilities. In CofC, spells and psychic powers do not use a basic mana or point system, but mostly deal temporary ability score damage, and some Sanity damage, as well. I've been working on the notion of a non-class D&D variant, where abilities are chosen on a sort of point-buy or secondary feat selection. That would require that spell level somehow be incorporated into the feat tree. Admittedly, I haven't given the matter much though yet, but at first glance, I don't like the mana point thing. Might be easier to simply create a general table, like to the one for sorcerer, with spells known and per day, and apply it across the board for everybody. You would include spells of up to a certain spell level per feat, based on caster level (number of levels acquired after gaining the feat). Bonuses would apply, as normal, for higher ability scores. For instance, Apprentice would simply allow you to gain spells up to 3rd level, but you still would go by the table, gaining 0-level and 1st-level spells when you take the feat, up to 3rd-level. The prerequisite for Journeyman would then be the ability to cast 3rd-level spells, etc.
ShinoAburame 12-08-06, 06:23 PM	I like it, and though flavor wise arcane spells all which way might not make sense, mechanichaly it makes perfect sense. Perhaps change the knowledge based on if you're a divine or arcane caster. Knowledge (Religion) vs knowledge (arcana). I also would've added a prequisite of spellcraft. Spellcraft is about knowing what's being cast, wouldn't it make sense to need to know that sortof thing before casting spells? Player one: What are you cast? Player two: I...don't know...:eek: That might work for say, a sorcerer. But after awhile, it gets old. But I like it, investing feats, skillpoints, and having armor/shield restriction cause of arcane failure in exchange for a couple of spells. Has a Fable feel to it.
Valoy_Muniz 01-02-07, 04:42 PM	Did you ever try it in game yet?
Darth Sephiroth 01-02-07, 04:46 PM	This seems like an interesting way to go, may need to see about modifying it to fit my Dark Trinity campaign since it has more of the feel I want