Fractional Saves and BAB [Archive] - Wizards Community

Fractional Saves and BAB [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Cariyaga
07-16-07, 04:22 PM I know what they are, I just need to know what they are. For an adventure I'm playing in. I'm too lazy to calculate them. <_<
Millenia
07-16-07, 05:29 PM Good BAB is 1/1

Average BAB is 3/4

Poor BAB is 1/2

I don't know the saves off the top of my head.
Morwen
07-16-07, 05:33 PM Good saves are 1/2 (+2), poor saves are 1/3.
Metafictional
07-16-07, 05:41 PM Ok. Here goes.

Worst BAB Progression (Wizard): each level your BAB increases by 1/2

Average BAB Progression (Cleric): each level your BAB increases by 3/4

Best BAB Progression (Fighter): each level your BAB increases by 1.

Just remember that 2/4 = 1/2 and you should be set.

So a Wizard 5 has a BAB of 2 1/2

If he took 5 levels of Cleric, that adds a BAB of 3 3/4

Convert the 2 1/2 to 2 2/4, add 2 2/4 to 3 3/4, and you get 6 1/4, for a bonus of +6. One more Cleric level 3/4 would increase the BAB to 7.

Bad Save Progression: each level grants 1/3

Good Save Progression: 1st level grants 2 1/2, each additional level grants 1/2.

Remember that 1/3 equals 2/6, and 1/2 equals 3/6.

So, the Reflex Save of a Rogue 5 is 4 1/2

If he takes 5 levels of Fighter, the Fighter levels grant a Reflex save of 1 2/3.

4 and 3/6 + 1 and 4/6 = 6 and 1/6. Bonus of +6. One more level of Fighter adds 2/6 to the Reflex Save, so you'd have 6 3/6.

Aren't fractions fun?

Honestly, if it wasn't for the fact that multi-classed 3/4 guys lose a BAB for going into any PrC that doesn't have a +1 BAB per level, I wouldn't even waste my time with this. But the idea that a Cleric 10/Rogue 10 has a BAB lower than a Cleric 20 always bugged me.
Kursk
07-16-07, 05:51 PM But the idea that a Cleric 10/Rogue 10 has a BAB lower than a Cleric 20 always bugged me.

Why? it SHOULD be this way as Clerics are better "fighter" types than rogues.
Vaelan
07-16-07, 05:55 PM Why? it SHOULD be this way as Clerics are better "fighter" types than rogues.
Which is obvious, since it is so adeptly reflected by the great difference in their native BABs! Oh wait...

Rogues are better "fighter" types than Clerics. See how I can just reverse that and it is just as factually accurate? That means that there is no factual basis for your claim.
Kursk
07-16-07, 06:58 PM Which is obvious, since it is so adeptly reflected by the great difference in their native BABs! Oh wait...

Rogues are better "fighter" types than Clerics. See how I can just reverse that and it is just as factually accurate? That means that there is no factual basis for your claim.

True. In my flu induced stupor I was thinking wizard vs. cleric.
eamon
07-17-07, 06:20 AM The only thing worrisome to me is that the "loss" of bab is a bit of a balancing item which makes level dipping a little less attractive. With fractional BAB, character power definitely increases. And you might want to rule that multiple "good" saves only apply the initial +2 boost once.
Iskitim
08-08-07, 03:16 PM Regarding fractional saves, might Good save = +2/3 and Bad save = +1/3 be a reasonable option? I'm looking for something to go with fractional BAB so that multiclassing isn't powered up so drastically.
Morwen
08-08-07, 06:07 PM Regarding fractional saves, might Good save = +2/3 and Bad save = +1/3 be a reasonable option? I'm looking for something to go with fractional BAB so that multiclassing isn't powered up so drastically.

That would only power up everyone with Good saves rather than just the multiclassers.. At 20th level, +2/3 per level ends up at +15, instead of the normal max of +12.

If you don't want to make multiclassing better, just apply the +2 once regardless of how many 1st-levels the character has in a class with that Good save. Then use +1/2 for all other Good save levels.
EjoThims
08-08-07, 07:33 PM Frational BAB and Saves is actually already nerf to dipping into all good save classes. Since it uses the total good/bad value from all classes already, that +2 onlt gets added in once.

On BAB it's simply a much needed equalizer.
Iskitim
08-10-07, 12:55 PM Morwen, at 20th level, +2/3 ends up at +13, and +14 at level 21. I'm assuming you still added +2 at first level, which I did not intend. I apologize if I was unclear. It does still improve good save classes somewhat. I guess I'm trying to figure out how much that extra +1 to good saves matters without doing the math, hoping to draw on someone else's experience. Also, to tell the truth, I've never been comfortable with the initial +2 bonus on good saves. It doesn't make much sense to me. So I viewed eliminating it as something of an added bonus.
Morwen
08-10-07, 06:51 PM Morwen, at 20th level, +2/3 ends up at +13, and +14 at level 21. I'm assuming you still added +2 at first level, which I did not intend.

Sorry, I just messed up my math (for some reason I thought 3/4 instead of 2/3...) :(

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Cariyaga 07-16-07, 04:22 PM	I know what they are, I just need to know what they are. For an adventure I'm playing in. I'm too lazy to calculate them. <_<
Millenia 07-16-07, 05:29 PM	Good BAB is 1/1 Average BAB is 3/4 Poor BAB is 1/2 I don't know the saves off the top of my head.
Morwen 07-16-07, 05:33 PM	Good saves are 1/2 (+2), poor saves are 1/3.
Metafictional 07-16-07, 05:41 PM	Ok. Here goes. Worst BAB Progression (Wizard): each level your BAB increases by 1/2 Average BAB Progression (Cleric): each level your BAB increases by 3/4 Best BAB Progression (Fighter): each level your BAB increases by 1. Just remember that 2/4 = 1/2 and you should be set. So a Wizard 5 has a BAB of 2 1/2 If he took 5 levels of Cleric, that adds a BAB of 3 3/4 Convert the 2 1/2 to 2 2/4, add 2 2/4 to 3 3/4, and you get 6 1/4, for a bonus of +6. One more Cleric level 3/4 would increase the BAB to 7. Bad Save Progression: each level grants 1/3 Good Save Progression: 1st level grants 2 1/2, each additional level grants 1/2. Remember that 1/3 equals 2/6, and 1/2 equals 3/6. So, the Reflex Save of a Rogue 5 is 4 1/2 If he takes 5 levels of Fighter, the Fighter levels grant a Reflex save of 1 2/3. 4 and 3/6 + 1 and 4/6 = 6 and 1/6. Bonus of +6. One more level of Fighter adds 2/6 to the Reflex Save, so you'd have 6 3/6. Aren't fractions fun? Honestly, if it wasn't for the fact that multi-classed 3/4 guys lose a BAB for going into any PrC that doesn't have a +1 BAB per level, I wouldn't even waste my time with this. But the idea that a Cleric 10/Rogue 10 has a BAB lower than a Cleric 20 always bugged me.
Kursk 07-16-07, 05:51 PM	But the idea that a Cleric 10/Rogue 10 has a BAB lower than a Cleric 20 always bugged me. Why? it SHOULD be this way as Clerics are better "fighter" types than rogues.
Vaelan 07-16-07, 05:55 PM	Why? it SHOULD be this way as Clerics are better "fighter" types than rogues. Which is obvious, since it is so adeptly reflected by the great difference in their native BABs! Oh wait... Rogues are better "fighter" types than Clerics. See how I can just reverse that and it is just as factually accurate? That means that there is no factual basis for your claim.
Kursk 07-16-07, 06:58 PM	Which is obvious, since it is so adeptly reflected by the great difference in their native BABs! Oh wait... Rogues are better "fighter" types than Clerics. See how I can just reverse that and it is just as factually accurate? That means that there is no factual basis for your claim. True. In my flu induced stupor I was thinking wizard vs. cleric.
eamon 07-17-07, 06:20 AM	The only thing worrisome to me is that the "loss" of bab is a bit of a balancing item which makes level dipping a little less attractive. With fractional BAB, character power definitely increases. And you might want to rule that multiple "good" saves only apply the initial +2 boost once.
Iskitim 08-08-07, 03:16 PM	Regarding fractional saves, might Good save = +2/3 and Bad save = +1/3 be a reasonable option? I'm looking for something to go with fractional BAB so that multiclassing isn't powered up so drastically.
Morwen 08-08-07, 06:07 PM	Regarding fractional saves, might Good save = +2/3 and Bad save = +1/3 be a reasonable option? I'm looking for something to go with fractional BAB so that multiclassing isn't powered up so drastically. That would only power up everyone with Good saves rather than just the multiclassers.. At 20th level, +2/3 per level ends up at +15, instead of the normal max of +12. If you don't want to make multiclassing better, just apply the +2 once regardless of how many 1st-levels the character has in a class with that Good save. Then use +1/2 for all other Good save levels.
EjoThims 08-08-07, 07:33 PM	Frational BAB and Saves is actually already nerf to dipping into all good save classes. Since it uses the total good/bad value from all classes already, that +2 onlt gets added in once. On BAB it's simply a much needed equalizer.
Iskitim 08-10-07, 12:55 PM	Morwen, at 20th level, +2/3 ends up at +13, and +14 at level 21. I'm assuming you still added +2 at first level, which I did not intend. I apologize if I was unclear. It does still improve good save classes somewhat. I guess I'm trying to figure out how much that extra +1 to good saves matters without doing the math, hoping to draw on someone else's experience. Also, to tell the truth, I've never been comfortable with the initial +2 bonus on good saves. It doesn't make much sense to me. So I viewed eliminating it as something of an added bonus.
Morwen 08-10-07, 06:51 PM	Morwen, at 20th level, +2/3 ends up at +13, and +14 at level 21. I'm assuming you still added +2 at first level, which I did not intend. Sorry, I just messed up my math (for some reason I thought 3/4 instead of 2/3...) :(