Freeform spellcasting...revisited [Archive] - Wizards Community

Freeform spellcasting...revisited [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
TaklinnFreinheim
03-17-05, 06:00 AM Hello everyone,

I am a desperate GM who has been looking for a way to create a free form spellcasting system that uses points of some kind to keep spell casting under control but on the other hand allow my players to create and shape spells(within limits of course) with point costs assigned to damage dice, casting time, duration, area/target(s), quantity etc, with the ability to "revert" them into purely PHB type DnD spells; sort of like a spell creation "toolkit".
For example, say for instance my wizard wanted a fly type spell that allowed "hop up" to the Rooftop of a second story building. He would designate the duration for say "1 round" which would cost 1 point, target(personal) which would cost 1 point so this spell "Guffy's Bounce" would cost the wizard 2 spell points for a little spell that is useful but not draining.

Does anyone have any suggestions, comments, or thoughts? Or snide mockery at my insanity? That works too....

Sincerely,
Taklinn
Grim Aramis
03-17-05, 07:08 AM I have been working on such a system, first based on nothing but DnD, then based on Ars Magica, and now under complete revision.

Although I love the idea about freeform casting, it usually gives the players either too much or to little power to have fun with, and it makes everything extremely hard to plan.

My group stopped thinking and relying completely on magic when they tested a free-form system, gone was climbing steep rockfaces, balancing fences, and everything - all they did was cast a couple of spells and they were safe. :)
I have atm switched back to the standard DnD spells (flavored with UA generic classes) and my players seem quite happy about this, they also felt that magic became a bit to powerful (in the way of versatility).

From my experience free-form magic is needed to be restrictive in either what ways the spellcaster can use his magic, how he uses it, or other such restrictions that will allow you to avoid the "magic being solution to everything" problem.
HailSpork
03-17-05, 02:18 PM The eldritch invocations of the warlock are kind of a start.

What if you came up with a small number of spells, each being extremely basic. Then, you add abilities to modify these spells. As you advance as a caster, you gain more ability to modify your spells, as well as more powerful casting.

Eldritch blast would be the most basic attack spell, and several modifying abilities are in place, though in such a system, I think they would need to be rebalanced.
BrainMole
03-17-05, 03:05 PM I had once in my group a player who used Mongoose Publishing's Chaos magic. This chaos mage then ruled the rest of the campaing. Casting mass stunning and teleporting effect to Stun and group the enemies in a pile. Next round he used fireball on the mass and we had lot's of fried orcs :) With it's flaws the book has nice material to work better freeform magic. I think I will check mongooses Quintessential Chaos Magic to see if the system has gotten any better.
Masterful_Norg
03-17-05, 04:32 PM If you're interested take a look at the Anime d20 System Reference Document over here (http://www.guardiansorder.com/downloads/). Go to the chapter about attributes (chapter 6 I believe) and after looking over the list of attributes take a look at the "magic" attribute. You should be able to figure out what to do from there.
TaklinnFreinheim
03-18-05, 03:43 AM Thanks Masterful_Norg

Thats the General Idea of what I was thinking but how about this:
Say we want to make a fireball using this system
Range
Close 1 point
Medium 2 points
Long 4 points
Damage
1d4+1/level 1 point
1d6+1/level 2 points
1d8+1/level 3 points
1d4/level 2 points
1d6/level 4 points
1d8/level 5 points
Target
Personal 0 points
Creature or Object 1 point
Multiple Targets 1 point +1/target
Radius 1 point/5 foot
Duration
Instantaneous 1 point
Rounds/level 2 points
Minutes/level 4 points
10 Minutes/level 6 points
Hours/level 10 points

So the total for a fireball would be: 4 +4 + 4 +1 = 13 points

Please remember that while I can understand complex math formula, I cannot create them on my own so the numbers are based on guesstimation and are probably broken somehow.

Sincerely,
Taklinn
HailSpork
03-18-05, 03:53 AM I think that many of these should be hard-coded into the basic spell.
Remember, instantanous is commonly far more powerful than hours/level. Examples: Wall of stone, stone shape, awaken, etc.
HailSpork
03-19-05, 10:30 AM I was thinking a spellcraft driven system.

Basic attack spell, base DC of 8
-Add 1 to the DC per d6 of damage, up to 1 per 2 caster levels
-Add 2 to the DC per d6 damage past half caster level, to a maximum of caster level
-Assumed to be a touch attack
-Add 3 for a ray with a range increment of 30', maximum of 10 range increments, each at -2 to hit
-Add 3 to the DC for each extra 30' of range
-Assumed that the damage is acid, cold, fire, or electricity
-Add 1 to the DC if the damage is sonic (uses d4's)
-Add 3 to the DC if the damage is force
-Add 2 to the DC per 10' radius of burst (centered from the target; reflex save for half to all but the target hit by the ray). Maximum of 10' radius per 3 levels.
-Add 2 to the DC per 15' of a cone. Must start at caster, maximum of 15' per 3 caster levels.

When you're finished, make a spellcraft check. If it is being countered, it's an opposed spellcraft check. The saving throw is 10+(half caster level)+(stat mod).

So, if a 6th level wizard with an int of 18 and 9 ranks in spellcraft (total 13) wants to cast a 6d6 20' burst fireball at a range increment of 30', his DC is:
8+3+6+3+2+2=24. He needs an 11, which he should be able to make half the time. Not bad, considering that's the upper limit of what he can cast. A 10th level wizard would only have a DC of 22, and probably have 4 more ranks of spellcraft, needing only a 5. For him to throw a 10d6 fireball, he would have a DC of 28, and need an 11.
Then, he shoots the fireball and makes a ranged attack roll. To target a point in the ground, you need to hit an AC 5 plus range modifiers.
Perhaps ever 1 you miss by causes scatter by 5' in a random direction? This also solves the problem of how well you can aim a spell.

Another example: A level 1 wizard wants to throw a 1d6 bolt of fire. Assuming a range increment of 30', he needs 8+2+3=13. With an int of 18 and 4 ranks of spellcraft, he needs to roll a 5. Pretty easy, but it's an easy spell. For a level 2 wizard to throw a 2d6 bolt of force would be a DC of 8+1+2+3+3=17. With 5 spellcraft, he needs to roll an 8.

Some possible variants:
-Add 1 to the DC for electricity, +2 hit/save DC vs heavily metalled armors
-Add 1 to the DC for fire, up dice to d8's
-Add 1 to the DC for cold, make it a fort save
-Add 2 to the DC for acid, roll for half damage the next round (halved again if they made the initial save)
The only thing I dislike about that, is it leaves no standard. Perhaps removing the fire option and leaving fire as the default? I like the idea that fire is the easiest to form into offensive spells.

I completely made up these numbers. A lot of them sound right, but I haven't tested them.

I made rays in increments of 30'. If you do them in 10' increments, it loses meaning of using increments. Besides, it always bothered me that I make a to-hit roll with an acid arrow, but my odds of hitting don't change if the target is 800' away compared to 10' away.

I'm wondering how to do spells like magic missile. Perhaps +2 to the DC to divy up dice between targets? Multiple to-hit rolls, of course.
Hmm... For a level 5 caster to throw 3x 1d6 bolts of force the DC would be 8+2+2+3+2+3=20. With an int of 18 and 8 ranks of spellcraft, he needs an 8.

Now, the problem comes to limit casting. With freeform casting, it becomes difficult to determine what spell level each spell is, and how many castings you get. If you do unlimited castings per day, you could form a fort-save fatigue system.
Perhaps make a fort save if it's unsuccessfully cast or fatigued until the end of the encounter? Maybe a DC of half the spellcraft DC?
Or, perhaps give them spell points per day, and each spell costs an amount equal to (Spellcraft DC-Caster Level) minimum of 1.
Or, give each spell level a range of values. If a spell has a spellcraft DC between within a range of a spell level, that's the level of the spell. Under this system, it's probably best to return saves to 10+spell level+attribute mod.
0-10: level 0 (non-attack spells may have different base dc's)
11-14: level 1
15-18: level 2
19-22: level 3
23-26: level 4
27-30: level 5
31-34: level 6
35-38: level 7
39-42: level 8
43+: level 9
ArochanoX
03-20-05, 05:16 AM The math behind spells are really difficult. The base idea is to search for different series of spells with the same effect.

Here's few:
Invisibility, mass invisibility, greater invisibility
burning hands, fireball, cone of cold
magic missile, scorching ray, polar ray
charm person, charm monster, dominate person, dominate monster
heroism, greater heroism
etc
etc

Then look at the spells descriptor and set those descriptors a current spell level. After that you must take away the basic descriptors (range, duration...) so there leaves only the effect.

Now you have the effects and descriptors separately. Now you must combine the descriptors, so they cost equally. After that, you must calculate the power of the effects and now you have a freeform magic system. Much like the epic spellcasting.
Lina_Inverse
03-20-05, 11:28 PM if you want points,check out the psihandbook.psions may not be freeform but they can give you a good base for a freeform system.just create a bunch of base spells and include there augmentations.
smithwick05
03-22-05, 05:12 PM I have this idea I wrote for another thread (but the board doesn't want me to post for some reason):

Well, you need a resevoir of some kind of spell power. Maybe certain kinds of things (Necromancy, Evocation, Conjurgation/Abjuration) require a different reserve... Necromancy might require Wisdom+Intelligence as its base of power. Conjurgation/Abjuration might need Intelligence+Charisma, etc.

The current system uses the familar: at this level you can cast this many spells at this level and that level with this much power, etc.

To create magic items, one'd research what could cause the desired effect (using a check), then produce the effect (expendature of magic power, using a check) within a feat system i.e. craft magic armor or what have you.

The same thing could be done with certain Lovecraftian summoning (and dispelling!) of demons and the like.

Healing of damage and curses could also be done in this way...

The checks involved could be from various disciplines: say armorer checks involved with armor, calligraphy checks when involved with writing mojo to protect you from that demon you summoned, etc. Higher checks needed to make more powerful foci and executive elements of magical effects (wands, rods, etc). Scale the feats by both power as in the ability to channel magical energy and the ability to cause crazier effects. Maybe its harder to get certain things as well. Say, in one DM's world its really easy to get magical equipment like using Amazon or Barnes and Noble... in another you have to quest for such items. That and making this stuff might take some time in doing as well, or require massive amounts of saved up energy. Using published material to scale effects and maybe for ideas for spell components as well as old legends and books... and you've got yourself something quite interesting there. Styles could range from the runes of pseudo-Nordic Dwarves or cannibal Orcs to technomancy.

Different cultures would use different languages and styles of accessing magic... information gathering would be key as to figure out another's magickal language and such but effects would be common (an area of dispell magic would dispell all magic of a certain level, etc.).

Allow all core classes to use these feats and such but eliminate the magic using classes to make a "magic user" class... a beefed up expert with more skills and bonus feats and access to cool stuff.

From what little I've read about Eberron such a system might work well there. I dunno.

--smithwick05
IceFractal
03-23-05, 11:57 PM An attempt at building a fireball spell Hero system style:

Fireball
Energy Blast: 5 points / 1d6
Radius Effect: 10 points / 1d6, R = 5'/10 points
Mini Fireball: 10 points, 1d6 damage, 5' radius
Master Fireball: 100 points, 10d6 damage, 50' radius

Note that in the Hero system the point cost would actually be paid at character creation and then the fireball could be used for a relatively small endurance cost, but in D&D you might want to change this to reflect that 1d6 damage counts for more.
Harleaquinn
03-26-05, 02:04 PM Best Spell Point System Ever (http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=2699&SRC=EnWorld)

Heres the deal, this is about as freeform and unique as you get and completely gets away from the standard vancian approach of fire and forget DnD.

If ya want I can talk more in depth with you on it later, message SerpentineWren on aim sometime.
Lina_Inverse
03-26-05, 11:08 PM Best Spell Point System Ever (http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=2699&SRC=EnWorld)

Heres the deal, this is about as freeform and unique as you get and completely gets away from the standard vancian approach of fire and forget DnD.

If ya want I can talk more in depth with you on it later, message SerpentineWren on aim sometime.

of course,its prolly even more broken than standard d20 casting.thus makeing it worthless.
weasel fierce
03-27-05, 12:22 AM Buy a copy of Mage: The Ascension if you can find it.

Best freeform magic rules I have seen so far.
scwolf
03-27-05, 01:07 AM Buy a copy of Mage: The Ascension if you can find it.

Best freeform magic rules I have seen so far.

Also known for inducing mental breakdowns in a number of Storytellers (What the call a DM in the World of Darkness).
Xorial
03-27-05, 02:17 PM Try Elements of Magic (http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=2699&). I bought it & it is a really good freeform system that can still emulate the standard spells.
HiQKid
04-02-05, 10:42 PM So, basiclly what your looking for is a way to make epic spellcasting for every one? I've been looking for something like this myself.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TaklinnFreinheim 03-17-05, 06:00 AM	Hello everyone, I am a desperate GM who has been looking for a way to create a free form spellcasting system that uses points of some kind to keep spell casting under control but on the other hand allow my players to create and shape spells(within limits of course) with point costs assigned to damage dice, casting time, duration, area/target(s), quantity etc, with the ability to "revert" them into purely PHB type DnD spells; sort of like a spell creation "toolkit". For example, say for instance my wizard wanted a fly type spell that allowed "hop up" to the Rooftop of a second story building. He would designate the duration for say "1 round" which would cost 1 point, target(personal) which would cost 1 point so this spell "Guffy's Bounce" would cost the wizard 2 spell points for a little spell that is useful but not draining. Does anyone have any suggestions, comments, or thoughts? Or snide mockery at my insanity? That works too.... Sincerely, Taklinn
Grim Aramis 03-17-05, 07:08 AM	I have been working on such a system, first based on nothing but DnD, then based on Ars Magica, and now under complete revision. Although I love the idea about freeform casting, it usually gives the players either too much or to little power to have fun with, and it makes everything extremely hard to plan. My group stopped thinking and relying completely on magic when they tested a free-form system, gone was climbing steep rockfaces, balancing fences, and everything - all they did was cast a couple of spells and they were safe. :) I have atm switched back to the standard DnD spells (flavored with UA generic classes) and my players seem quite happy about this, they also felt that magic became a bit to powerful (in the way of versatility). From my experience free-form magic is needed to be restrictive in either what ways the spellcaster can use his magic, how he uses it, or other such restrictions that will allow you to avoid the "magic being solution to everything" problem.
HailSpork 03-17-05, 02:18 PM	The eldritch invocations of the warlock are kind of a start. What if you came up with a small number of spells, each being extremely basic. Then, you add abilities to modify these spells. As you advance as a caster, you gain more ability to modify your spells, as well as more powerful casting. Eldritch blast would be the most basic attack spell, and several modifying abilities are in place, though in such a system, I think they would need to be rebalanced.
BrainMole 03-17-05, 03:05 PM	I had once in my group a player who used Mongoose Publishing's Chaos magic. This chaos mage then ruled the rest of the campaing. Casting mass stunning and teleporting effect to Stun and group the enemies in a pile. Next round he used fireball on the mass and we had lot's of fried orcs :) With it's flaws the book has nice material to work better freeform magic. I think I will check mongooses Quintessential Chaos Magic to see if the system has gotten any better.
Masterful_Norg 03-17-05, 04:32 PM	If you're interested take a look at the Anime d20 System Reference Document over here (http://www.guardiansorder.com/downloads/). Go to the chapter about attributes (chapter 6 I believe) and after looking over the list of attributes take a look at the "magic" attribute. You should be able to figure out what to do from there.
TaklinnFreinheim 03-18-05, 03:43 AM	Thanks Masterful_Norg Thats the General Idea of what I was thinking but how about this: Say we want to make a fireball using this system Range Close 1 point Medium 2 points Long 4 points Damage 1d4+1/level 1 point 1d6+1/level 2 points 1d8+1/level 3 points 1d4/level 2 points 1d6/level 4 points 1d8/level 5 points Target Personal 0 points Creature or Object 1 point Multiple Targets 1 point +1/target Radius 1 point/5 foot Duration Instantaneous 1 point Rounds/level 2 points Minutes/level 4 points 10 Minutes/level 6 points Hours/level 10 points So the total for a fireball would be: 4 +4 + 4 +1 = 13 points Please remember that while I can understand complex math formula, I cannot create them on my own so the numbers are based on guesstimation and are probably broken somehow. Sincerely, Taklinn
HailSpork 03-18-05, 03:53 AM	I think that many of these should be hard-coded into the basic spell. Remember, instantanous is commonly far more powerful than hours/level. Examples: Wall of stone, stone shape, awaken, etc.
HailSpork 03-19-05, 10:30 AM	I was thinking a spellcraft driven system. Basic attack spell, base DC of 8 -Add 1 to the DC per d6 of damage, up to 1 per 2 caster levels -Add 2 to the DC per d6 damage past half caster level, to a maximum of caster level -Assumed to be a touch attack -Add 3 for a ray with a range increment of 30', maximum of 10 range increments, each at -2 to hit -Add 3 to the DC for each extra 30' of range -Assumed that the damage is acid, cold, fire, or electricity -Add 1 to the DC if the damage is sonic (uses d4's) -Add 3 to the DC if the damage is force -Add 2 to the DC per 10' radius of burst (centered from the target; reflex save for half to all but the target hit by the ray). Maximum of 10' radius per 3 levels. -Add 2 to the DC per 15' of a cone. Must start at caster, maximum of 15' per 3 caster levels. When you're finished, make a spellcraft check. If it is being countered, it's an opposed spellcraft check. The saving throw is 10+(half caster level)+(stat mod). So, if a 6th level wizard with an int of 18 and 9 ranks in spellcraft (total 13) wants to cast a 6d6 20' burst fireball at a range increment of 30', his DC is: 8+3+6+3+2+2=24. He needs an 11, which he should be able to make half the time. Not bad, considering that's the upper limit of what he can cast. A 10th level wizard would only have a DC of 22, and probably have 4 more ranks of spellcraft, needing only a 5. For him to throw a 10d6 fireball, he would have a DC of 28, and need an 11. Then, he shoots the fireball and makes a ranged attack roll. To target a point in the ground, you need to hit an AC 5 plus range modifiers. Perhaps ever 1 you miss by causes scatter by 5' in a random direction? This also solves the problem of how well you can aim a spell. Another example: A level 1 wizard wants to throw a 1d6 bolt of fire. Assuming a range increment of 30', he needs 8+2+3=13. With an int of 18 and 4 ranks of spellcraft, he needs to roll a 5. Pretty easy, but it's an easy spell. For a level 2 wizard to throw a 2d6 bolt of force would be a DC of 8+1+2+3+3=17. With 5 spellcraft, he needs to roll an 8. Some possible variants: -Add 1 to the DC for electricity, +2 hit/save DC vs heavily metalled armors -Add 1 to the DC for fire, up dice to d8's -Add 1 to the DC for cold, make it a fort save -Add 2 to the DC for acid, roll for half damage the next round (halved again if they made the initial save) The only thing I dislike about that, is it leaves no standard. Perhaps removing the fire option and leaving fire as the default? I like the idea that fire is the easiest to form into offensive spells. I completely made up these numbers. A lot of them sound right, but I haven't tested them. I made rays in increments of 30'. If you do them in 10' increments, it loses meaning of using increments. Besides, it always bothered me that I make a to-hit roll with an acid arrow, but my odds of hitting don't change if the target is 800' away compared to 10' away. I'm wondering how to do spells like magic missile. Perhaps +2 to the DC to divy up dice between targets? Multiple to-hit rolls, of course. Hmm... For a level 5 caster to throw 3x 1d6 bolts of force the DC would be 8+2+2+3+2+3=20. With an int of 18 and 8 ranks of spellcraft, he needs an 8. Now, the problem comes to limit casting. With freeform casting, it becomes difficult to determine what spell level each spell is, and how many castings you get. If you do unlimited castings per day, you could form a fort-save fatigue system. Perhaps make a fort save if it's unsuccessfully cast or fatigued until the end of the encounter? Maybe a DC of half the spellcraft DC? Or, perhaps give them spell points per day, and each spell costs an amount equal to (Spellcraft DC-Caster Level) minimum of 1. Or, give each spell level a range of values. If a spell has a spellcraft DC between within a range of a spell level, that's the level of the spell. Under this system, it's probably best to return saves to 10+spell level+attribute mod. 0-10: level 0 (non-attack spells may have different base dc's) 11-14: level 1 15-18: level 2 19-22: level 3 23-26: level 4 27-30: level 5 31-34: level 6 35-38: level 7 39-42: level 8 43+: level 9
ArochanoX 03-20-05, 05:16 AM	The math behind spells are really difficult. The base idea is to search for different series of spells with the same effect. Here's few: Invisibility, mass invisibility, greater invisibility burning hands, fireball, cone of cold magic missile, scorching ray, polar ray charm person, charm monster, dominate person, dominate monster heroism, greater heroism etc etc Then look at the spells descriptor and set those descriptors a current spell level. After that you must take away the basic descriptors (range, duration...) so there leaves only the effect. Now you have the effects and descriptors separately. Now you must combine the descriptors, so they cost equally. After that, you must calculate the power of the effects and now you have a freeform magic system. Much like the epic spellcasting.
Lina_Inverse 03-20-05, 11:28 PM	if you want points,check out the psihandbook.psions may not be freeform but they can give you a good base for a freeform system.just create a bunch of base spells and include there augmentations.
smithwick05 03-22-05, 05:12 PM	I have this idea I wrote for another thread (but the board doesn't want me to post for some reason): Well, you need a resevoir of some kind of spell power. Maybe certain kinds of things (Necromancy, Evocation, Conjurgation/Abjuration) require a different reserve... Necromancy might require Wisdom+Intelligence as its base of power. Conjurgation/Abjuration might need Intelligence+Charisma, etc. The current system uses the familar: at this level you can cast this many spells at this level and that level with this much power, etc. To create magic items, one'd research what could cause the desired effect (using a check), then produce the effect (expendature of magic power, using a check) within a feat system i.e. craft magic armor or what have you. The same thing could be done with certain Lovecraftian summoning (and dispelling!) of demons and the like. Healing of damage and curses could also be done in this way... The checks involved could be from various disciplines: say armorer checks involved with armor, calligraphy checks when involved with writing mojo to protect you from that demon you summoned, etc. Higher checks needed to make more powerful foci and executive elements of magical effects (wands, rods, etc). Scale the feats by both power as in the ability to channel magical energy and the ability to cause crazier effects. Maybe its harder to get certain things as well. Say, in one DM's world its really easy to get magical equipment like using Amazon or Barnes and Noble... in another you have to quest for such items. That and making this stuff might take some time in doing as well, or require massive amounts of saved up energy. Using published material to scale effects and maybe for ideas for spell components as well as old legends and books... and you've got yourself something quite interesting there. Styles could range from the runes of pseudo-Nordic Dwarves or cannibal Orcs to technomancy. Different cultures would use different languages and styles of accessing magic... information gathering would be key as to figure out another's magickal language and such but effects would be common (an area of dispell magic would dispell all magic of a certain level, etc.). Allow all core classes to use these feats and such but eliminate the magic using classes to make a "magic user" class... a beefed up expert with more skills and bonus feats and access to cool stuff. From what little I've read about Eberron such a system might work well there. I dunno. --smithwick05
IceFractal 03-23-05, 11:57 PM	An attempt at building a fireball spell Hero system style: Fireball Energy Blast: 5 points / 1d6 Radius Effect: 10 points / 1d6, R = 5'/10 points Mini Fireball: 10 points, 1d6 damage, 5' radius Master Fireball: 100 points, 10d6 damage, 50' radius Note that in the Hero system the point cost would actually be paid at character creation and then the fireball could be used for a relatively small endurance cost, but in D&D you might want to change this to reflect that 1d6 damage counts for more.
Harleaquinn 03-26-05, 02:04 PM	Best Spell Point System Ever (http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=2699&SRC=EnWorld) Heres the deal, this is about as freeform and unique as you get and completely gets away from the standard vancian approach of fire and forget DnD. If ya want I can talk more in depth with you on it later, message SerpentineWren on aim sometime.
Lina_Inverse 03-26-05, 11:08 PM	Best Spell Point System Ever (http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=2699&SRC=EnWorld) Heres the deal, this is about as freeform and unique as you get and completely gets away from the standard vancian approach of fire and forget DnD. If ya want I can talk more in depth with you on it later, message SerpentineWren on aim sometime. of course,its prolly even more broken than standard d20 casting.thus makeing it worthless.
weasel fierce 03-27-05, 12:22 AM	Buy a copy of Mage: The Ascension if you can find it. Best freeform magic rules I have seen so far.
scwolf 03-27-05, 01:07 AM	Buy a copy of Mage: The Ascension if you can find it. Best freeform magic rules I have seen so far. Also known for inducing mental breakdowns in a number of Storytellers (What the call a DM in the World of Darkness).
Xorial 03-27-05, 02:17 PM	Try Elements of Magic (http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=2699&). I bought it & it is a really good freeform system that can still emulate the standard spells.
HiQKid 04-02-05, 10:42 PM	So, basiclly what your looking for is a way to make epic spellcasting for every one? I've been looking for something like this myself.