Generic Class Feats [Archive] - Wizards Community

Generic Class Feats [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
trs31
02-22-04, 04:49 PM Ok so I just got Unearthed Arcana and I plan to use the generic classes (probably with some prestige classes). I would be very intrested to hear peoples idears/opinions on converting class features such as Barbarian Rage, Bardic Music, etc not covered in the book into feats for these classes.
kzin
02-22-04, 06:55 PM I'd be interested in discussing it as well.

for the Monk, I'm thinking about having some of the abilities made into feats, and some made into spells (so the "Monk" would get his fighting abilities from being a Warrior, his skill selection from being an Expert, and his spell-like and supernatural abilities from being a Spell Caster).

The other three things I'm looking at doing:

1) adjust the Expert skills to 8 points per level, and the Spellcaster to 6 per level; then make the Spell Caster learn spells via skill points instead of the rigid table used for sorcerers.

2) use the spell point/power point system with the generic classes.

3) adding a third caster type, "Psionic", and allowing psionic powers to be added to the mix. Not sure about the attack/defense modes. I'm also thinking about having all casters use wisdom (so, the distinction between arcane, divine, and psionic is actually just a character concept issue that has no impact upon mechanics).
stilleon
02-22-04, 07:03 PM I firmly believe that fests need to be designated if they are "expert" feats, "spellcaster" feats or "warrior" feats. Then, each class would be required to take a feat assigned to their class for their first and second bonus feats, then every even feat thereafter.

On the odd bonus feats you can take feats from other classes. And for the feats all classws gain at 1st, 3rd, 5th, et. you can only standard feats.
Eryndel
02-22-04, 09:10 PM I've been mulling over the generic classes. I could see adding stuff like Barbarian rage to the feat list. I too will probably have specific feat lists for each class to take. Most of the other classes I'd make prestige. I'd strip 5 levels off of the PrePaladin, PreBard, and PreRanger to make them 10 level prestige class. I'd make a wizard Prestige class that adds the ability to cast spells from a spellbook as if they were known spells, and build a prestige class for Monk.

I'm still thinking about whether I should prestige the Druid or not.

Werner
JohnSnow
02-24-04, 09:18 PM I'd make a wizard Prestige class that adds the ability to cast spells from a spellbook as if they were known spells, and build a prestige class for Monk.

I'm still thinking about whether I should prestige the Druid or not.

There's a nice "Prestige Druid" and "Prestige Wizard" in Fantasy Flight's Midnight Campaign Setting, just FYI. And plenty of Monk Prestige Classes in various sources (Oriental Adventures/Complete Warrior anyone?) that could be converted to make a prestige Monk with relative ease.

I think the generic classes need a slight power-up though...better hit dice all around and 2 more skill points per level for the expert almost fixes the entire problem, though.
Kheti sa-Menik
02-24-04, 10:49 PM I just have to say....I LOVE the Generic class variant.

Want a fighter-type who has a good will save, can sneak attack, and has trapsense? With diplomacy and gather info as class skills? DONE

Want a spellcaster-type who has a good fort save, can cast clerical and druidic and wizard/sorc spells and can turn undead? With intimidate and sense motive as class skills? DONE

Want a sneaky-type skill monger with a good will and fort saves, can take weapon specialization in urghosh, and can smite evil? With knowledges and ride as class skills? DONE

AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Truly, I think this is one of the more revolutionary ideas in the book. And it's so simple. I am soooo itching to play in a campaign that uses it.

I do note that some work will have to be done by the DM upfront. Some feats prereqs will have to be modified. The one that jumps to mind is Weapon Specialization..would it be open to the Warrior archetype or available to all?

I probably would err on the side of flexibility.
Mutant for Hire
02-25-04, 12:32 AM The thing about Feats is to always make sure that Feats that duplicate advanced abilities have prerequisites that force them to take the ability at a high level.

You can either base it on a BAB, or a Base Save or a skill or even a skill combo. Want to restrict a class independent Feat to say, level seven or higher? Require 11 ranks in a specific base skill. Want to make it Warrior oriented? Make a BAB of +7, which means Warriors pick it up at level 7, Experts get it at level 10 and Spellcasters can't get it until level 11.

Greater Sneak Attack is a great example. Technically speaking, there's nothing preventing a warrior from picking it up. However they have to burn two class skills on Hide and Seak and they're not going to get it until level 14 because they need 18 ranks in Hide and Move Silently in order to get it.

In general, you should avoid class specific feats as much as possible. In fact I quibble with the fact that they made Turn Undead have a dependency on Divine Spellcasting. Smite Evil doesn't have that sort of requisite. In general, only Feats that directly affect or interact with spellcasting should depend on the ability to cast spells.
kzin
02-25-04, 11:24 AM I wouldn't have Smite Evil nor Turn Undead as feats. I would make them spells. Make Smite Evil a 1st level spell, make Turn Undead maybe have multiple grades of spell (like the cure * wounds spells).
Greg K
02-25-04, 12:22 PM For my own campaign, I have a feat called True Faith (Wis 13+, Cha 13+ Religion 2 ranks and must be Lawful Good) which allows a character to turn undead. It also serves as a prerequisite for Divine Grace, Divine Strength and Lay hands which are feats in my campaign since I don't have a Paladin base class.

I also had my own Ki Feats, but I am adopting Blood and Fist into my campaign and using its martial arts styles and various feats including ki feats.
Nikdo
02-25-04, 12:27 PM The more I think about it and the more I read here on the boards, the more I like the idea of Generic Classes. The system would work perfectly for a campaign world I've been playing around with for a long time now (for which standard DnD doesn’t work). Only a few modifications are necessary for me:

1) More skill points all around or at least more starting ranks - see below (I tend to run skills heavy games).

2) A good workable Skills-and-Feats based magic system.

3) A workable “Background” model similar to D20 Modern starting occupations. Mostly provides bonus starting skill points but also helps the player de-genericize (I think I just made up that word) their character a bit.
Nikdo
02-25-04, 12:32 PM Originally posted by Greg K
For my own campaign, I have a feat called True Faith (Wis 13+, Cha 13+ Religion 2 ranks and must be Lawful Good) which allows a character to turn undead. It also serves as a prerequisite for Divine Grace, Divine Strength and Lay hands which are feats in my campaign since I don't have a Paladin base class.

Greg K-

I love your "True Faith" system. Is this homebrew or is it published somewhere? It would work great for one of my campaigns...
Greg K
02-25-04, 12:42 PM Nikido,
Thanks. It is my home brew. I have a gaming website that is ready to go up once I find a host (I am going to talk with a former professor on Thursday about getting the school to host it). Once the site is up, it will be there.
Nikdo
02-25-04, 12:58 PM Greg K-

Excellent. Let us know when you post it. I'd like to check it out.
kzin
02-25-04, 04:12 PM Originally posted by Nikdo
2) A good workable Skills-and-Feats based magic system.

3) A workable ?Background? model similar to D20 Modern starting occupations. Mostly provides bonus starting skill points but also helps the player de-genericize (I think I just made up that word) their character a bit.

Nikdo, have you looked over my d20Fantasy project?

With the addition of the Generic Classes, I'm sort of reconsidering it, but you might find some value in how I handled #2 and the starting occupations I did for #3.

http://people.ucsc.edu/~jrudd/Games/d20Fantasy

(d20Fantasy was a set of things I wrote up for using d20Modern in a fantasy setting; it uses feats for access to casting skills, skill points to learn individual spells, and spell points/power points)

It might give you some ideas.
Nikdo
02-25-04, 04:30 PM kzin-

Outstanding! I've been messing around with something similar for a while. Thanks for the link.
stilleon
02-25-04, 07:51 PM Originally posted by Nikdo
Only a few modifications are necessary for me:

1) More skill points all around or at least more starting ranks - see below (I tend to run skills heavy games).

2) A good workable Skills-and-Feats based magic system.

I think the base classes need more skill points anyway. These days I let them have all the listed class skills of the paragons as racial skills (they can buy these as class skills at all times) as well as the class skills for the class. I also increase the skill points per level by +1.

A skill/feat magic systme would be good. Feats for power/skills for areas of magic knowledge.
El_Machinae
12-10-04, 05:21 PM Please help me out here.

I'm trying to design a class that gets 3 good saves, full BAB, smite evil and favoured enemy.

What's left over? Hit Die and skill points and feats. Assuming a d8 hit die, what kind of extra feats and skills can this characer get?
Slayen
12-10-04, 06:31 PM Uber Generics (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=282481), a self created project already has a few of the feats not made in into the generics system. If you want to build a semi balanced class, this system also helps with that. Check it out, you might like it.
Crave
12-10-04, 06:49 PM Uber Generics (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=282481), a self created project already has a few of the feats not made in into the generics system. If you want to build a semi balanced class, this system also helps with that. Check it out, you might like it.
Woops ^_^;; i was the one who said that, I'm using his computer.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
trs31 02-22-04, 04:49 PM	Ok so I just got Unearthed Arcana and I plan to use the generic classes (probably with some prestige classes). I would be very intrested to hear peoples idears/opinions on converting class features such as Barbarian Rage, Bardic Music, etc not covered in the book into feats for these classes.
kzin 02-22-04, 06:55 PM	I'd be interested in discussing it as well. for the Monk, I'm thinking about having some of the abilities made into feats, and some made into spells (so the "Monk" would get his fighting abilities from being a Warrior, his skill selection from being an Expert, and his spell-like and supernatural abilities from being a Spell Caster). The other three things I'm looking at doing: 1) adjust the Expert skills to 8 points per level, and the Spellcaster to 6 per level; then make the Spell Caster learn spells via skill points instead of the rigid table used for sorcerers. 2) use the spell point/power point system with the generic classes. 3) adding a third caster type, "Psionic", and allowing psionic powers to be added to the mix. Not sure about the attack/defense modes. I'm also thinking about having all casters use wisdom (so, the distinction between arcane, divine, and psionic is actually just a character concept issue that has no impact upon mechanics).
stilleon 02-22-04, 07:03 PM	I firmly believe that fests need to be designated if they are "expert" feats, "spellcaster" feats or "warrior" feats. Then, each class would be required to take a feat assigned to their class for their first and second bonus feats, then every even feat thereafter. On the odd bonus feats you can take feats from other classes. And for the feats all classws gain at 1st, 3rd, 5th, et. you can only standard feats.
Eryndel 02-22-04, 09:10 PM	I've been mulling over the generic classes. I could see adding stuff like Barbarian rage to the feat list. I too will probably have specific feat lists for each class to take. Most of the other classes I'd make prestige. I'd strip 5 levels off of the PrePaladin, PreBard, and PreRanger to make them 10 level prestige class. I'd make a wizard Prestige class that adds the ability to cast spells from a spellbook as if they were known spells, and build a prestige class for Monk. I'm still thinking about whether I should prestige the Druid or not. Werner
JohnSnow 02-24-04, 09:18 PM	I'd make a wizard Prestige class that adds the ability to cast spells from a spellbook as if they were known spells, and build a prestige class for Monk. I'm still thinking about whether I should prestige the Druid or not. There's a nice "Prestige Druid" and "Prestige Wizard" in Fantasy Flight's Midnight Campaign Setting, just FYI. And plenty of Monk Prestige Classes in various sources (Oriental Adventures/Complete Warrior anyone?) that could be converted to make a prestige Monk with relative ease. I think the generic classes need a slight power-up though...better hit dice all around and 2 more skill points per level for the expert almost fixes the entire problem, though.
Kheti sa-Menik 02-24-04, 10:49 PM	I just have to say....I LOVE the Generic class variant. Want a fighter-type who has a good will save, can sneak attack, and has trapsense? With diplomacy and gather info as class skills? DONE Want a spellcaster-type who has a good fort save, can cast clerical and druidic and wizard/sorc spells and can turn undead? With intimidate and sense motive as class skills? DONE Want a sneaky-type skill monger with a good will and fort saves, can take weapon specialization in urghosh, and can smite evil? With knowledges and ride as class skills? DONE AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Truly, I think this is one of the more revolutionary ideas in the book. And it's so simple. I am soooo itching to play in a campaign that uses it. I do note that some work will have to be done by the DM upfront. Some feats prereqs will have to be modified. The one that jumps to mind is Weapon Specialization..would it be open to the Warrior archetype or available to all? I probably would err on the side of flexibility.
Mutant for Hire 02-25-04, 12:32 AM	The thing about Feats is to always make sure that Feats that duplicate advanced abilities have prerequisites that force them to take the ability at a high level. You can either base it on a BAB, or a Base Save or a skill or even a skill combo. Want to restrict a class independent Feat to say, level seven or higher? Require 11 ranks in a specific base skill. Want to make it Warrior oriented? Make a BAB of +7, which means Warriors pick it up at level 7, Experts get it at level 10 and Spellcasters can't get it until level 11. Greater Sneak Attack is a great example. Technically speaking, there's nothing preventing a warrior from picking it up. However they have to burn two class skills on Hide and Seak and they're not going to get it until level 14 because they need 18 ranks in Hide and Move Silently in order to get it. In general, you should avoid class specific feats as much as possible. In fact I quibble with the fact that they made Turn Undead have a dependency on Divine Spellcasting. Smite Evil doesn't have that sort of requisite. In general, only Feats that directly affect or interact with spellcasting should depend on the ability to cast spells.
kzin 02-25-04, 11:24 AM	I wouldn't have Smite Evil nor Turn Undead as feats. I would make them spells. Make Smite Evil a 1st level spell, make Turn Undead maybe have multiple grades of spell (like the cure * wounds spells).
Greg K 02-25-04, 12:22 PM	For my own campaign, I have a feat called True Faith (Wis 13+, Cha 13+ Religion 2 ranks and must be Lawful Good) which allows a character to turn undead. It also serves as a prerequisite for Divine Grace, Divine Strength and Lay hands which are feats in my campaign since I don't have a Paladin base class. I also had my own Ki Feats, but I am adopting Blood and Fist into my campaign and using its martial arts styles and various feats including ki feats.
Nikdo 02-25-04, 12:27 PM	The more I think about it and the more I read here on the boards, the more I like the idea of Generic Classes. The system would work perfectly for a campaign world I've been playing around with for a long time now (for which standard DnD doesn’t work). Only a few modifications are necessary for me: 1) More skill points all around or at least more starting ranks - see below (I tend to run skills heavy games). 2) A good workable Skills-and-Feats based magic system. 3) A workable “Background” model similar to D20 Modern starting occupations. Mostly provides bonus starting skill points but also helps the player de-genericize (I think I just made up that word) their character a bit.
Nikdo 02-25-04, 12:32 PM	Originally posted by Greg K For my own campaign, I have a feat called True Faith (Wis 13+, Cha 13+ Religion 2 ranks and must be Lawful Good) which allows a character to turn undead. It also serves as a prerequisite for Divine Grace, Divine Strength and Lay hands which are feats in my campaign since I don't have a Paladin base class. Greg K- I love your "True Faith" system. Is this homebrew or is it published somewhere? It would work great for one of my campaigns...
Greg K 02-25-04, 12:42 PM	Nikido, Thanks. It is my home brew. I have a gaming website that is ready to go up once I find a host (I am going to talk with a former professor on Thursday about getting the school to host it). Once the site is up, it will be there.
Nikdo 02-25-04, 12:58 PM	Greg K- Excellent. Let us know when you post it. I'd like to check it out.
kzin 02-25-04, 04:12 PM	Originally posted by Nikdo 2) A good workable Skills-and-Feats based magic system. 3) A workable ?Background? model similar to D20 Modern starting occupations. Mostly provides bonus starting skill points but also helps the player de-genericize (I think I just made up that word) their character a bit. Nikdo, have you looked over my d20Fantasy project? With the addition of the Generic Classes, I'm sort of reconsidering it, but you might find some value in how I handled #2 and the starting occupations I did for #3. http://people.ucsc.edu/~jrudd/Games/d20Fantasy (d20Fantasy was a set of things I wrote up for using d20Modern in a fantasy setting; it uses feats for access to casting skills, skill points to learn individual spells, and spell points/power points) It might give you some ideas.
Nikdo 02-25-04, 04:30 PM	kzin- Outstanding! I've been messing around with something similar for a while. Thanks for the link.
stilleon 02-25-04, 07:51 PM	Originally posted by Nikdo Only a few modifications are necessary for me: 1) More skill points all around or at least more starting ranks - see below (I tend to run skills heavy games). 2) A good workable Skills-and-Feats based magic system. I think the base classes need more skill points anyway. These days I let them have all the listed class skills of the paragons as racial skills (they can buy these as class skills at all times) as well as the class skills for the class. I also increase the skill points per level by +1. A skill/feat magic systme would be good. Feats for power/skills for areas of magic knowledge.
El_Machinae 12-10-04, 05:21 PM	Please help me out here. I'm trying to design a class that gets 3 good saves, full BAB, smite evil and favoured enemy. What's left over? Hit Die and skill points and feats. Assuming a d8 hit die, what kind of extra feats and skills can this characer get?
Slayen 12-10-04, 06:31 PM	Uber Generics (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=282481), a self created project already has a few of the feats not made in into the generics system. If you want to build a semi balanced class, this system also helps with that. Check it out, you might like it.
Crave 12-10-04, 06:49 PM	Uber Generics (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=282481), a self created project already has a few of the feats not made in into the generics system. If you want to build a semi balanced class, this system also helps with that. Check it out, you might like it. Woops ^_^;; i was the one who said that, I'm using his computer.