Gestald question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Gestald question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Banpai
02-18-04, 05:38 PM I have a question regarding Gestald characters with LA and Racial HD.
If i want to make a Gestalt Char with Sucubus class from SS ECL 12 how many levels may i take on the other side:
Sucubus12/Sorcerer12 or as i presume Sucubus6/Sorcerer6 ?

Note that i actually thinks that Gestald chars are a great idea despite the fact that i really didn´t liked the AD&D muliclass system (i never played it but read the books) strange, isn´t it ? :) .. :( ... :D
Kaya Kenobi
02-18-04, 05:44 PM Originally posted by Banpai
I have a question regarding Gestald characters with LA and Racial HD.
If i want to make a Gestalt Char with Sucubus class from SS ECL 12 how many levels may i take on the other side:
Sucubus12/Sorcerer12 or as i presume Sucubus6/Sorcerer6 ?

Note that i actually thinks that Gestald chars are a great idea despite the fact that i really didn´t liked the AD&D muliclass system (i never played it but read the books) strange, isn´t it ? :) .. :( ... :D

Gestalt is like the 2e version, but nothing like it at the same time.
strenoth
02-18-04, 08:16 PM well, succubus is a 12 ECl character according to Savage Species, so here is hwo I woudl work it (assuming Gestalted with Sorcerer all the way) as per the Savage Species Racial class for Succubus. Note: Using Fraction BaB/Saves

for levels 1 and 2, HD, BaB, saves, and skill points would come from the succubus, getting the class abilities from succubus and from sorcerer (basically, succubus + spellcasting and familiar)
BaB: 2 Fort: 3 Ref: 3 Will: 3

at level 3, the succubus gains NO HD from class, so you'd use sorcerer HD and skill points, advance as a good progression for Will Saves and poor progression for Fort & reflex, plus class abilities still
BaB: 2 +1/2 Fort: 3 +1/3 Ref: 3 +1/3 Will: 3 +1/2

4th: get to use succubus HD:
BaB: 3 +1/2 Fort: 3 +1/3+1/2 Ref: 3 +1/3+1/2 Will: 4

5th: BaB: 4 Fort: 4 +1/6 Ref: 4+1/6 Will: 4 +1/2

6th: BaB: 5 Fort: 4 +2/3 Ref: 4+ 2/3 Will: 5

7th: BaB: 5 +1/2 Fort: 5 Ref: 5 Will: 5 +1/2

8th: BaB: 6 +1/2 Fort: 5 +1/2 Ref: 5 +1/2 Will: 6

9th: BaB: 7 Fort: 5 +5/6 Ref: 5 +5/6 Will: 6 +1/2

10th: BaB: 8 Fort: 6 +1/3 Ref: 6 +1/3 Will: 7

11th: BaB: 8+1/2 Fort: 6 +2/3 Ref: 6 +2/3 Will: 7 +1/2

12th: BaB: 9 Fort: 7 Ref: 7 Will: 8

Note that as both Succubus HD and Sorc HD provide good Will Saves, the will save is exactly the same as for a 12th level sorcerer. For gestalt characters, fractional BAB/saves work best anyway, to avoid the silliness presented on certain threads, and works especially well for gestalting with ECl races.

makes being an ECl races a heck of a lot less painful too. yeesh... a succubus gets an extra 6d4+con bonus HP for being gestalted with a sorcerer.
Banpai
02-18-04, 08:22 PM Ok now anotherone:

After visiting one of the Gestalt threads one the Character Optiminsation boards i have seen things like that:

Wizard 6 / Sorc 6
Incatatrix 10/ Sorc 6-16
Archmage 4 / Sorc 16-20

And someone claimed you could reach CL34 with this by applying the PrC level to the Sorcerer, but doesn´t the PrC ability "+1 level of existing class" overlap with the Sorcerer Levels taken at the same time? It seems so IMO and I am really shure that the creators of UA didn-t intendet to let gestald chars reacht such a caster level before Epic.

PLEASE say that I am right Gestalts are such a cool option that I don´t want to let it become ruined due tu a bad wording.

(I can see a dark future for Gestalt Characters - but well I did see the same for Ur-Prist but some DMs seem to allow it :) )
Banpai
02-18-04, 08:33 PM Thx for your help strenoth but seriously it think the levels from SS aren´t reall levels, they were only made to let players play sauch creatures at low levels.
And IIRC its somewhere stated class dependat effects don´t work with the SS classes, one prof for that would be the Feats which are gained depending on HD as you can see in the Sucubus Class and in the PHB table 3-1.

Honestly thanks for your help but for Gods sacke if your reply would be correct imagine the following:

Level 1 Human Paragon Sorcerer / 20 Levels of Rogue

This would result in 20d6 maxed due tue Paragon = 120 + 20 per level = 520 HP not including Con boni ........................

Ok thats a very strong example but its perhaps the best one to show that it does not work like that (and turning the Paragon into a class is possible too a 1 HD class but its a class nontheless)

again thx for your help
strenoth
02-18-04, 08:36 PM you are right for most cases, BUT there are some strange cases where rather than giving the same ability like the sample you gave (ie, the class ability of +1 spell casting level), they having somethign along the lines of a class fature like Student of perfection which tells you to addyou class levels with your monk levels to determine unarmed attacks/damage, speed, and AC. Going by the letter of the rules, this is a Seperate ability that stacks with monk ability, but going by the spirit, I'll throw in this modification:

THIS IS MY HOUSE RULE

Class abilities that stack between classes can never give effective ability levels beyond the character's actual level. thus, if a character has 20Monk on one side, and 10spywarrior/10 monk PRC on the other side of the gestalt, he'd still only have 20 levels of monk speed etc because it's capped by his actual character level.

BUT, if the next ten levels were spent on non-monk classes, the PrC and monk levels woudl still be added together, and simply be capped by the characters current level, this if the next 10 levels were psy-warrior/paladin, his monk 'core' abilities would continue to increase with him until 30th level (20 monk +10 PrC), but if he continues to go paladin/psywarrior beyond 30th level, his monk core abilities would not keep up.
strenoth
02-18-04, 08:40 PM heh, I was writing as you posted.. my post is in response to yoru Previous post abotu stackign abilities. :)
Banpai
02-18-04, 09:07 PM Great Housrule I would not have thought of that Problem and your solution is as easy (but clerver) as effective!
But after seeing what terrible things could be done with gestalts I am thinking about some houserule myself tell me what you think of them:

-for the Purpose of prequesits for PrCs each side of the Gestalt counts allone, meaning a level 6 Sorcerer / 6 Fighter can not take levels in Eldritch Knight until he gets the profiency on the left side of it (i know this PrC is forbidden its only for the example).
I am not shure if this houserule is necessary considering the next one.

-You can not use abilities from one side with levels from the other side ( i know its not well written but the right words simply didn,t came into my mind) as example the following:

Sorc 6/ Wiz 6
Sor 10 / Incantarix 10

the char in this example can´t use the PrC abilities like "+1 level of existing class it simply can´t but it can still use general abilities like improved metamagic as well as bonus metagmagic feats are useable by sor and wiz

now something to the BAB issue: Other may say i am wrong but if you start as Fighter1/ Clerci 1 your BAB is 1 of you then advance as to Wiz 1 Fighter 17 Cleric 2 your BAB is 2 bechaue you are taking the best stuff at every level checking at every level if that would not be true the claim that Fighter 1 Druid 19/ Wizard 20 would get BAB 20 due to its BAB Progression from the First level ..... Sorry this seems just wrong.

At last the issue with ECL with a Drow (ECL 2 as example)
first what is not possible IMO : Wiz 1 + ECL/ Cleric 3
now what i think is possible Wiz 1 / Cleric 1

to explain this a little bit better ECL is meant to chause some serous delay in your progression allowing to traid that in for 2 levels of cleric just ruins it. Though i have to mention that ECL +2 seems harder when used with Gestats chause their abilities don´t matter that much any more, so lowering ECL a bit might be a neccesary adjustment to make it run more smoth.

To complete my post I only want to say that Gestalting a monster like A Ghaele taking a level for each HD of the monster its still fair chause Ghaeles have good BAB good Saves D8 and Cleric Spell casting.

Well this is my oppinion some may have different oppinions and i would be glad to hear them chaue thats the reason message boards exist IMO

:angel:

EDIT: I saw your recent post after posting mine already :)
DarkThoughts24
02-18-04, 09:24 PM i wouldnt allow gestaling of racial class levels(perhaps not countin paragon) first off. baby's first words shouldnt be vocal components to magic missle. racial levels are the stuff you learn BEFORE you can take a class. thats why you cant multi during racial development until you've gpotten all your classes.

as far as the monk stacking class abilities, i think a dm errata could be applied to it if the class is gestalted with monk that the combined class (keep in mind to the pc each gestalted level is considered a single class, just an exceptionally powerful class) nulls the monkstack of the prc.
Banpai
02-18-04, 09:33 PM Sorry Sorry Sorry I was using the Paragon template from ELH and forgot the new name for the Paragon classes.
BUT If that would be true DarkThoughts the spellcasting bonus levels woult be utterly useless if you would take those levels before finishing your 1 level in a spellcasting class.
strenoth
02-18-04, 09:35 PM i'm going to have to disagree with the rules about cross over between the 'sides' of the gestalt class. We've used that to try and keep things organised, but officially, there is no side, the person is combining both to make a 'super-level' or a level of a 'super-class', depending on hwo you look at it. And if you try and define sides, then people will do this:

Side 1 Side 2
fighter1 Sorc1
fighter 2 Sorc2
Sorc 3 fighter 3
sorc 4 fighter 4

etc. And if you can't go swapping which side of the Gestalt class has which clas abilities, you can never gain caster prestige classes that have a BaB prerequisite if you gestalt with a fighter class, because the BaB will always come from the 'other side' of the gestalt.

most PrCs you can qualify for earlier by gestalting are forbidden anyway, though not Arcane Archer (you can get it 1 level earlier).

it's not made for a 'normal' campaign anyway, so i wouldn;t worry to much about gaining PrCs early.

hmmm, random thought combined wiht Exalted Deed: Paladin 20 gestated with Something 10/Vassal of Bahaumat 10
DarkThoughts24
02-18-04, 09:50 PM Originally posted by Banpai
Sorry Sorry Sorry I was using the Paragon template from ELH and forgot the new name for the Paragon classes.
BUT If that would be true DarkThoughts the spellcasting bonus levels woult be utterly useless if you would take those levels before finishing your 1 level in a spellcasting class.

if you mean spellcasting bonus for certain races its part of the race. its something inate. if you mean for paragon template, its a template i wouldnt even bother breakin it down into levels i jsut set the character sheet on fire to the next pc who asked me to let them be one.

the punishment for the one who properly worded a wish to be a paragon-templated drow was not happy when lolth took notice and put him thru "the test"
Fingers Boggis
02-19-04, 06:41 AM I know that the mystic theurge and eldrich knight arent supposed to work with gestalt can anyone tell me if this is the case for the Arcane trickster, Bladesinger and Spell Sword?

Fingers
Banpai
02-19-04, 06:49 AM Well strenoth I feared the same when I wrote. Your Housrule is on the other hand a suitable solution to the problem and I am already shure i will present it together with the Gestalt description in the book to my players.

About that Vassal of Bahamut idea of yours - a Gestalt char might be finally a way the manage the prequesits without heavy min-maxing (Red Dragons are Gestalds by nature ;) )

DarkThoughts if you take a paragon class like the Human Paragon without having levels in a spellcasting class before you don´t get bonus spellcasting levels, they are wasted.
DarkThoughts24
02-19-04, 06:59 AM first level of human paragon you dont get +1CL so you take wizard/cleric/bard/druid/sorc/spellcaster (the horror!)
Banpai
02-19-04, 07:10 AM Arcane Trickser is out chause it´s aleady a combination of classes
and a Rogue3/Wiz3 can get it simply too easy and it simply becomes too strong.Bladesinger depending on the version: The RoF version does certainly work but i am not so shure about the Complete Warrior version though it is much less good in a gestald build than in a normal one.
Spell sword should work too depending on what you want with the char level 20 Fighter / 5Wiz /10 Spellsword/5 another Prc
should work well and is certaily not too strong bechause of Gestalt Though 5Fighter SS10 /Wiz 15 might be stretching it.
Remember it is not clarified jet what happens is you take a level in a Spellcasting class and simultaniously a level in a PrC that grands +1 Spellcasting level IMO it does not stack or mayby you want to use strenoths Housrule to solve this.
Banpai
02-19-04, 07:15 AM What i wanted to say that Human1 Spellcasting class1 (wiz,sor,pal,ranger,cleric,dru) Human 2-3 does work but Human 3 allone doesn´t even grand you the magical powers of a typical stone.

FONT=arial]first level of human paragon you dont get +1CL so you take wizard/cleric/bard/druid/sorc/spellcaster (the horror!)[/FONT]

Could you please explain to me what that meant i am confused

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Banpai 02-18-04, 05:38 PM	I have a question regarding Gestald characters with LA and Racial HD. If i want to make a Gestalt Char with Sucubus class from SS ECL 12 how many levels may i take on the other side: Sucubus12/Sorcerer12 or as i presume Sucubus6/Sorcerer6 ? Note that i actually thinks that Gestald chars are a great idea despite the fact that i really didn´t liked the AD&D muliclass system (i never played it but read the books) strange, isn´t it ? :) .. :( ... :D
Kaya Kenobi 02-18-04, 05:44 PM	Originally posted by Banpai I have a question regarding Gestald characters with LA and Racial HD. If i want to make a Gestalt Char with Sucubus class from SS ECL 12 how many levels may i take on the other side: Sucubus12/Sorcerer12 or as i presume Sucubus6/Sorcerer6 ? Note that i actually thinks that Gestald chars are a great idea despite the fact that i really didn´t liked the AD&D muliclass system (i never played it but read the books) strange, isn´t it ? :) .. :( ... :D Gestalt is like the 2e version, but nothing like it at the same time.
strenoth 02-18-04, 08:16 PM	well, succubus is a 12 ECl character according to Savage Species, so here is hwo I woudl work it (assuming Gestalted with Sorcerer all the way) as per the Savage Species Racial class for Succubus. Note: Using Fraction BaB/Saves for levels 1 and 2, HD, BaB, saves, and skill points would come from the succubus, getting the class abilities from succubus and from sorcerer (basically, succubus + spellcasting and familiar) BaB: 2 Fort: 3 Ref: 3 Will: 3 at level 3, the succubus gains NO HD from class, so you'd use sorcerer HD and skill points, advance as a good progression for Will Saves and poor progression for Fort & reflex, plus class abilities still BaB: 2 +1/2 Fort: 3 +1/3 Ref: 3 +1/3 Will: 3 +1/2 4th: get to use succubus HD: BaB: 3 +1/2 Fort: 3 +1/3+1/2 Ref: 3 +1/3+1/2 Will: 4 5th: BaB: 4 Fort: 4 +1/6 Ref: 4+1/6 Will: 4 +1/2 6th: BaB: 5 Fort: 4 +2/3 Ref: 4+ 2/3 Will: 5 7th: BaB: 5 +1/2 Fort: 5 Ref: 5 Will: 5 +1/2 8th: BaB: 6 +1/2 Fort: 5 +1/2 Ref: 5 +1/2 Will: 6 9th: BaB: 7 Fort: 5 +5/6 Ref: 5 +5/6 Will: 6 +1/2 10th: BaB: 8 Fort: 6 +1/3 Ref: 6 +1/3 Will: 7 11th: BaB: 8+1/2 Fort: 6 +2/3 Ref: 6 +2/3 Will: 7 +1/2 12th: BaB: 9 Fort: 7 Ref: 7 Will: 8 Note that as both Succubus HD and Sorc HD provide good Will Saves, the will save is exactly the same as for a 12th level sorcerer. For gestalt characters, fractional BAB/saves work best anyway, to avoid the silliness presented on certain threads, and works especially well for gestalting with ECl races. makes being an ECl races a heck of a lot less painful too. yeesh... a succubus gets an extra 6d4+con bonus HP for being gestalted with a sorcerer.
Banpai 02-18-04, 08:22 PM	Ok now anotherone: After visiting one of the Gestalt threads one the Character Optiminsation boards i have seen things like that: Wizard 6 / Sorc 6 Incatatrix 10/ Sorc 6-16 Archmage 4 / Sorc 16-20 And someone claimed you could reach CL34 with this by applying the PrC level to the Sorcerer, but doesn´t the PrC ability "+1 level of existing class" overlap with the Sorcerer Levels taken at the same time? It seems so IMO and I am really shure that the creators of UA didn-t intendet to let gestald chars reacht such a caster level before Epic. PLEASE say that I am right Gestalts are such a cool option that I don´t want to let it become ruined due tu a bad wording. (I can see a dark future for Gestalt Characters - but well I did see the same for Ur-Prist but some DMs seem to allow it :) )
Banpai 02-18-04, 08:33 PM	Thx for your help strenoth but seriously it think the levels from SS aren´t reall levels, they were only made to let players play sauch creatures at low levels. And IIRC its somewhere stated class dependat effects don´t work with the SS classes, one prof for that would be the Feats which are gained depending on HD as you can see in the Sucubus Class and in the PHB table 3-1. Honestly thanks for your help but for Gods sacke if your reply would be correct imagine the following: Level 1 Human Paragon Sorcerer / 20 Levels of Rogue This would result in 20d6 maxed due tue Paragon = 120 + 20 per level = 520 HP not including Con boni ........................ Ok thats a very strong example but its perhaps the best one to show that it does not work like that (and turning the Paragon into a class is possible too a 1 HD class but its a class nontheless) again thx for your help
strenoth 02-18-04, 08:36 PM	you are right for most cases, BUT there are some strange cases where rather than giving the same ability like the sample you gave (ie, the class ability of +1 spell casting level), they having somethign along the lines of a class fature like Student of perfection which tells you to addyou class levels with your monk levels to determine unarmed attacks/damage, speed, and AC. Going by the letter of the rules, this is a Seperate ability that stacks with monk ability, but going by the spirit, I'll throw in this modification: THIS IS MY HOUSE RULE Class abilities that stack between classes can never give effective ability levels beyond the character's actual level. thus, if a character has 20Monk on one side, and 10spywarrior/10 monk PRC on the other side of the gestalt, he'd still only have 20 levels of monk speed etc because it's capped by his actual character level. BUT, if the next ten levels were spent on non-monk classes, the PrC and monk levels woudl still be added together, and simply be capped by the characters current level, this if the next 10 levels were psy-warrior/paladin, his monk 'core' abilities would continue to increase with him until 30th level (20 monk +10 PrC), but if he continues to go paladin/psywarrior beyond 30th level, his monk core abilities would not keep up.
strenoth 02-18-04, 08:40 PM	heh, I was writing as you posted.. my post is in response to yoru Previous post abotu stackign abilities. :)
Banpai 02-18-04, 09:07 PM	Great Housrule I would not have thought of that Problem and your solution is as easy (but clerver) as effective! But after seeing what terrible things could be done with gestalts I am thinking about some houserule myself tell me what you think of them: -for the Purpose of prequesits for PrCs each side of the Gestalt counts allone, meaning a level 6 Sorcerer / 6 Fighter can not take levels in Eldritch Knight until he gets the profiency on the left side of it (i know this PrC is forbidden its only for the example). I am not shure if this houserule is necessary considering the next one. -You can not use abilities from one side with levels from the other side ( i know its not well written but the right words simply didn,t came into my mind) as example the following: Sorc 6/ Wiz 6 Sor 10 / Incantarix 10 the char in this example can´t use the PrC abilities like "+1 level of existing class it simply can´t but it can still use general abilities like improved metamagic as well as bonus metagmagic feats are useable by sor and wiz now something to the BAB issue: Other may say i am wrong but if you start as Fighter1/ Clerci 1 your BAB is 1 of you then advance as to Wiz 1 Fighter 17 Cleric 2 your BAB is 2 bechaue you are taking the best stuff at every level checking at every level if that would not be true the claim that Fighter 1 Druid 19/ Wizard 20 would get BAB 20 due to its BAB Progression from the First level ..... Sorry this seems just wrong. At last the issue with ECL with a Drow (ECL 2 as example) first what is not possible IMO : Wiz 1 + ECL/ Cleric 3 now what i think is possible Wiz 1 / Cleric 1 to explain this a little bit better ECL is meant to chause some serous delay in your progression allowing to traid that in for 2 levels of cleric just ruins it. Though i have to mention that ECL +2 seems harder when used with Gestats chause their abilities don´t matter that much any more, so lowering ECL a bit might be a neccesary adjustment to make it run more smoth. To complete my post I only want to say that Gestalting a monster like A Ghaele taking a level for each HD of the monster its still fair chause Ghaeles have good BAB good Saves D8 and Cleric Spell casting. Well this is my oppinion some may have different oppinions and i would be glad to hear them chaue thats the reason message boards exist IMO :angel: EDIT: I saw your recent post after posting mine already :)
DarkThoughts24 02-18-04, 09:24 PM	i wouldnt allow gestaling of racial class levels(perhaps not countin paragon) first off. baby's first words shouldnt be vocal components to magic missle. racial levels are the stuff you learn BEFORE you can take a class. thats why you cant multi during racial development until you've gpotten all your classes. as far as the monk stacking class abilities, i think a dm errata could be applied to it if the class is gestalted with monk that the combined class (keep in mind to the pc each gestalted level is considered a single class, just an exceptionally powerful class) nulls the monkstack of the prc.
Banpai 02-18-04, 09:33 PM	Sorry Sorry Sorry I was using the Paragon template from ELH and forgot the new name for the Paragon classes. BUT If that would be true DarkThoughts the spellcasting bonus levels woult be utterly useless if you would take those levels before finishing your 1 level in a spellcasting class.
strenoth 02-18-04, 09:35 PM	i'm going to have to disagree with the rules about cross over between the 'sides' of the gestalt class. We've used that to try and keep things organised, but officially, there is no side, the person is combining both to make a 'super-level' or a level of a 'super-class', depending on hwo you look at it. And if you try and define sides, then people will do this: Side 1 Side 2 fighter1 Sorc1 fighter 2 Sorc2 Sorc 3 fighter 3 sorc 4 fighter 4 etc. And if you can't go swapping which side of the Gestalt class has which clas abilities, you can never gain caster prestige classes that have a BaB prerequisite if you gestalt with a fighter class, because the BaB will always come from the 'other side' of the gestalt. most PrCs you can qualify for earlier by gestalting are forbidden anyway, though not Arcane Archer (you can get it 1 level earlier). it's not made for a 'normal' campaign anyway, so i wouldn;t worry to much about gaining PrCs early. hmmm, random thought combined wiht Exalted Deed: Paladin 20 gestated with Something 10/Vassal of Bahaumat 10
DarkThoughts24 02-18-04, 09:50 PM	Originally posted by Banpai Sorry Sorry Sorry I was using the Paragon template from ELH and forgot the new name for the Paragon classes. BUT If that would be true DarkThoughts the spellcasting bonus levels woult be utterly useless if you would take those levels before finishing your 1 level in a spellcasting class. if you mean spellcasting bonus for certain races its part of the race. its something inate. if you mean for paragon template, its a template i wouldnt even bother breakin it down into levels i jsut set the character sheet on fire to the next pc who asked me to let them be one. the punishment for the one who properly worded a wish to be a paragon-templated drow was not happy when lolth took notice and put him thru "the test"
Fingers Boggis 02-19-04, 06:41 AM	I know that the mystic theurge and eldrich knight arent supposed to work with gestalt can anyone tell me if this is the case for the Arcane trickster, Bladesinger and Spell Sword? Fingers
Banpai 02-19-04, 06:49 AM	Well strenoth I feared the same when I wrote. Your Housrule is on the other hand a suitable solution to the problem and I am already shure i will present it together with the Gestalt description in the book to my players. About that Vassal of Bahamut idea of yours - a Gestalt char might be finally a way the manage the prequesits without heavy min-maxing (Red Dragons are Gestalds by nature ;) ) DarkThoughts if you take a paragon class like the Human Paragon without having levels in a spellcasting class before you don´t get bonus spellcasting levels, they are wasted.
DarkThoughts24 02-19-04, 06:59 AM	first level of human paragon you dont get +1CL so you take wizard/cleric/bard/druid/sorc/spellcaster (the horror!)
Banpai 02-19-04, 07:10 AM	Arcane Trickser is out chause it´s aleady a combination of classes and a Rogue3/Wiz3 can get it simply too easy and it simply becomes too strong.Bladesinger depending on the version: The RoF version does certainly work but i am not so shure about the Complete Warrior version though it is much less good in a gestald build than in a normal one. Spell sword should work too depending on what you want with the char level 20 Fighter / 5Wiz /10 Spellsword/5 another Prc should work well and is certaily not too strong bechause of Gestalt Though 5Fighter SS10 /Wiz 15 might be stretching it. Remember it is not clarified jet what happens is you take a level in a Spellcasting class and simultaniously a level in a PrC that grands +1 Spellcasting level IMO it does not stack or mayby you want to use strenoths Housrule to solve this.
Banpai 02-19-04, 07:15 AM	What i wanted to say that Human1 Spellcasting class1 (wiz,sor,pal,ranger,cleric,dru) Human 2-3 does work but Human 3 allone doesn´t even grand you the magical powers of a typical stone. FONT=arial]first level of human paragon you dont get +1CL so you take wizard/cleric/bard/druid/sorc/spellcaster (the horror!)[/FONT] Could you please explain to me what that meant i am confused