Post/Author/DateTime	Post
MeepoTheMighty 03-12-04, 03:09 PM	Ever since seeing the gestalt rules, I've been tossing around this idea for a campaign where everyone is a gestalt sorcerer/whatever. Perhaps there was some sort of magical cataclysm in the past, or some sort of radiation, or whatever. Suffice to say, everyone (or at least everyone important) has magical abilities, represented by the gestalt rules. Does this sound interesting? Would it work? I can forsee a few problems: - A world where *everyone* can cast spells would be dramatically different than even the most high-magic campaign settings. - It would make wizards a lot less common. - Magic missle becomes deadly if you can field a whole army of people who can cast it. What are your thoughts? I'd like to try to hash this out and see if it's viable.
jagggar 03-12-04, 08:00 PM	I was actually thinking about something along the same lines. My actual thought was that everyone was an Adept/_________. Love to hear results if you do it.
FenixZero 03-12-04, 08:04 PM	I was thinking about this too but not with just sorcerer. I mean like everyones a rogue/whatever or a fighter/whatever it makes a great sorcerer campaign. Meaning that everything that they have to do should have some sort of magic involved. Heres a tip so you don't have uber casters dont like they pick another casting class, any casting class. They would make them to powerful. FenixZero
JohnSnow 03-12-04, 08:40 PM	Everyone as a Sorceror/Whatever certainly has possibilities. As a matter of fact, it's a pretty easy campaign. Just be aware that it's brimming with magic. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it's got to be considered. For example, if everyone's a Sorceror, are there still Wizards? Personally, I'd say no, but it's up to you. What about Druids? Clerics? Bards? Sorceror is so much the "magic-blooded" class that Gestalt Sorceror/X just feels like all your PCs are magic-blooded. Might make for an interesting campaign. Of course, it's easier if it's JUST the PCs (and some NPCs) which are magic-blooded (represented by being Sorceror gestalts). Then you take care of the nasty problems of "army of magic missile (or fireball) wielders." Basically, all your PCs have the BLOODLINE of magic. And to those with great destinies... Imagine... Fighter/Sorceror Rogue/Sorceror Cleric/Sorceror or Barbarian/Sorceror Druid/Sorceror Ranger/Sorceror All bases covered in a 3-person party. Might be kinda fun. But damn, could they blast their opponents. For the most part, they'd just end up with magic augmenting their other abilities (since Sorcerors have limited spells known). You might even be able to get away with limited magical items in this campaign. Tweaking the CRs would get tricky though.
sindar 03-13-04, 01:24 AM	personally I was thinking of a modified Gesalt system where everyone was Psionic. Thought they would just get the Power points and powers known and none of the other goodies like HD, skill points, saves, BaB ect. Psionic skills would be class skills and everyone could take psionic feats. The Gesalt would be Psychic warrior/ whoever and the Psion would be the only psionic base class.
Navonod Semaj 03-13-04, 12:54 PM	Could work great. Interesting campaign idea - Only a minority of the humanoid population is naturally a sorcerer gestalt. The rest are normal characters. Let's say, oh, one to ten percent. This could go two ways. Either A) The minority are feared by the masses and are persecuted, or B) The minority forms the ruling caste, with great sorcerer kings holding sway over millions. Either way, human nature dividing folks based on born diferences. A difference which can level a town, that is...
MeepoTheMighty 03-13-04, 02:04 PM	Originally posted by Navonod Semaj Could work great. Interesting campaign idea - Only a minority of the humanoid population is naturally a sorcerer gestalt. The rest are normal characters. Let's say, oh, one to ten percent. This could go two ways. Either A) The minority are feared by the masses and are persecuted, or B) The minority forms the ruling caste, with great sorcerer kings holding sway over millions. Either way, human nature dividing folks based on born diferences. A difference which can level a town, that is... I like those ideas. My original plans for the campaign had a large Inquisition-style force persecuting sorcerers and other "witches." Having all of the players have sorcererous powers just ensures that they'll come into conflict with the Inquisition, which is all good :) And what would a dark, shadowy, self-righteous organazation be if it didn't have a few skeletons in its closet as well? Yeah, I can definitely see this working :)
MeepoTheMighty 03-13-04, 02:07 PM	Originally posted by JohnSnow For example, if everyone's a Sorceror, are there still Wizards? Personally, I'd say no, but it's up to you. What about Druids? Clerics? Bards? I'm thinking there should still be wizards. I think I might restrict metamagic and item creation feats to wizards (and clerics, druids, and bards) to represent a more ordered, focused approach to magic. I'm also thinking that I might randomly determine (or otherwise pre-select) the spells known by each player. Would that be fun? Or would I face a revolt?
Naga_Slayer 03-13-04, 06:26 PM	Making everyone a wizard/X would give a more "Diablo" feel to the game as well. But I do like the idea.
DM Zoc 03-13-04, 06:53 PM	The other thing to keep in mind is that, aside from the paladin, most classes don't have Charisma as the highest priority; this builds a natural edge to progression, as they won't be able to cast high level spells, and only the truly dedicated would have save DCs worth worrying about overly much. The other aspect is that, in a world where everyone is a sorcerer, why would anyone make that their area of expertise? The devoted sorcerer with the high charisma, spellcraft skills, etc. etc. would be just as rare as in a normal setting. Same thing goes for item creation sorcerers; I see most characters not worrying to much about being a good sorcerer, and instead focusing on being the best fighter/sneaky person/cleric he/she can be. The last suggestion I have is to use the Bard and Paladin Prestige Classes, as both core classes would benefit too well from gestalt sorcerer.
jagggar 03-13-04, 10:00 PM	Was gunna suggest pre-built lists, but it kept coming out wordy and not meaning anything so I deleted it. Maybe make up about ten or so spell lists and make the players choose randomly. Maybe the "lesser" population could get spells per day as the Bard or Adept and the Gestalt Sorcerers are somehow blessed by their extra strong power.
Peregrine7 03-13-04, 10:25 PM	Originally posted by Navonod Semaj Could work great. Interesting campaign idea - Only a minority of the humanoid population is naturally a sorcerer gestalt. The rest are normal characters. Let's say, oh, one to ten percent. This could go two ways. Either A) The minority are feared by the masses and are persecuted, or B) The minority forms the ruling caste, with great sorcerer kings holding sway over millions. Either way, human nature dividing folks based on born diferences. A difference which can level a town, that is... Sounds like Katherine Kurtz's Deryni series (which I quit following several years ago, due to circumstances rather than losing interest).
Nei 03-14-04, 06:01 PM	Interesting idea. What are you going to do about arcane spell failure? Are you going to make feats that lower the arcane spell failure penalty? Nei
SirisC 03-14-04, 06:57 PM	what if you used the generic spellcaster class instead of sorcerer? (you know, that one that is like the sorcerer but with a bunch of powerups like bonus feats and increased spell list?)
ryanroyce 03-15-04, 01:14 AM	Originally posted by MeepoTheMighty I can forsee a few problems: - A world where *everyone* can cast spells would be dramatically different than even the most high-magic campaign settings. - It would make wizards a lot less common. - Magic missle becomes deadly if you can field a whole army of people who can cast it. What are your thoughts? I'd like to try to hash this out and see if it's viable. To address your points one by one: 1] Absolutely. There are many things that would be affected by this, and the first one that comes to mind is armor. Do you retain casting failure? If so, do you allow feats to reduce it? I wouldn't, actually. In a world where even a commoner/sorcerer can cast mage armor and a touch attack spell or two, armor would quickly become obsolete. Witness the sharp decline in armor's importance after the invention of the firearm, which gave an almost completely untrained peasant the ability to kill a trained-from-birth knight. This would, IMO, generate a more swashbuckling environment where almost no one wears armor and, if they do, they stick to the lighter varieties. As such, you might want to keep the arcane spell failure rules and use the Class-Based Defense variant as well. If I was in your position, I'd make the setting more akin to a Pirate/Musketeer-era world. I could see a brisk trade in rare/expensive/high-demand material components found in only one part of the world that needed to be shipped overseas, leading to an era of freebooting piracy (i.e., Kingdom X has an extraordinarily large bat population, making them a big exporter of that all-important fireball component ;) ). The possibilities are enough to make the inevitable headaches worthwhile, IMO. 2] Perhaps. Wizards gain very little on the surface from being gestalted with sorcerer (i.e., none of their base statistics like BAB or Saves improve), but their spellcasting power is effectively doubled! A gestalt wizard/sorcerer does not suffer here, IMO. 3] Until you realize that everyone in the opposing army can cast shield. :smirk: Ryan
MarkusH 03-15-04, 05:48 PM	What are you going to do about characters who have a Charisma of less than 10? Dwarves especially would take it in the chest. The only thing gestalting with sorcerors get you is their spell capability. (Well, you do get a good will save and a few extra class skills, but that's about it.) Perhaps allow characters to choose which attribute will be their "magical" attribute? With perhaps spell selection based on the attribute chosen. Of course, then you get something that looks like psionics without power points.
SirisC 03-15-04, 06:01 PM	Originally posted by MarkusH What are you going to do about characters who have a Charisma of less than 10? Dwarves especially would take it in the chest. The only thing gestalting with sorcerors get you is their spell capability. (Well, you do get a good will save and a few extra class skills, but that's about it.) Perhaps allow characters to choose which attribute will be their "magical" attribute? With perhaps spell selection based on the attribute chosen. Of course, then you get something that looks like psionics without power points. i still think the generic spellcaster fits the role since you can choose any mental stat.
Lord_Fergus 03-15-04, 08:15 PM	Seems like a good idea along the lines of Katherine Kurtz's Deryni series. A minority of the population has the ability to work magic but they have other normal "professions" such as priest, warrior etc. Now the Deryni are based on ceremonial magick and it is almost psionic in its aspect. Most Deryni only have 1 major Talent that they can utilize along with some utility and defense abilities. The other "magic" that exists is very limited. The Deryni were once the overlords of humanity and were thrown down in rebellion so they are hated and feared by most people if it is known they are Deryni - at times they are hunted and killed by the state. I would suggest something along this line - all of your adventurers "PCs and active NPCs" are able to cast either sorceror or psionic (your preference) spells but severely limit it over the normal number that a sorceror would normally have. You could even be a Sorceror or Psion as your adventuring class and they could be considered to be a Master of these natural abilities. I would even go so far as to somehow limit the number of attack spells per character. Really neat idea - think I will develop it further myself!
Tam 03-16-04, 03:33 PM	Another (light hearted) campaign would be "the academy of magic", where everyone should be part wizard.
Mergandisevender 03-17-04, 06:35 AM	I did one of those once. The party had a dorm right next to four halfling necromancers that loved to get drunk. Each of the Necros, btw, was a different Genasi. Fun stuff with such conflicting personalities living next door. I got a favorite player of mine in a Solo campaign with a Gestalt Fighter/Sorcerer Elf. Think the elemental plane of Wood, connected to the plane of Air above and Earth below, with a layered system akin to the Shadowlands of the Star Wars universe. The entire idea is that magic is commonplace, and so items are as well. How do you balance that out? Make one race completely magic-numb, another partially magical, one soaked like hell, and then everything else either 1) Knows what you'll do or 2) Has a defense of their own. And of course, it all gets balanced on a play-by-play sort of method. "Alright, so the surface is ALWAYS sunny?" 'Yes.' "And the middle one, it's always dusky? And people live there." 'Yep.' "And the bottom one, what's that like?" '*Turns on his Xbox. Starts up KOTOR.* See that? Shadowlands there? Yar. That's it.' "And underground, Underdark-ish right?" 'You're a Saint amoung theives, you evil DM-Guessing bastard.' Make note, the guy DOING this is the same one I used to post about having the Psionic Gnoll God Of Fire And Treaure, as well as a great Katana-Wielding Samurai that turned into a Gym Teacher. :)
sindar 03-17-04, 07:03 AM	I would suggest something along this line - all of your adventurers "PCs and active NPCs" are able to cast either sorceror or psionic (your preference) spells but severely limit it over the normal number that a sorceror would normally have. I'm think about try something like this as noted above and I figured they could progress to around level 5 spells or powers without any trainning after that the Gestalt levels ether simply stop or you still gain additonal Power points or spells per day and spells known (just not past 5th level)