Gestalt characters and exp. point penalties question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Gestalt characters and exp. point penalties question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
monkeybone
11-18-04, 04:02 PM I've most of the basics on gestalt but I'm looking for some feedback regarding exp. point penalties.

From what I've read of this class, you have the option to take more than your initial two classes, but I'm curious about the penalties for doing so.

For example, a half-elf gestalt character that starts with cleric1/wizard1/rogue2 should incur no exp. penalty, but when that player reaches cleric1/wizard2/rogue3 a penalty should kick in, no?

If so, I imagine this would encourage a player to stick to the two initial classes and opt for prestige classes instead, which incur no exp. point penalty.

Feedback?
Tein
11-18-04, 05:55 PM I don't know how that would work I have a rouge, ranger, paladin, outsider. I think the nicest way would be just to say no to exp. peniltys. Oh by the way you can only take one prestage class at a time.
monkeybone
11-18-04, 06:19 PM Yeah, I'm aware of the rule that prohibits more than one prestige class at a time; however, I think waving a xp penalty to an already powerful class is flirting with disaster.

It seems like the normal penalties would apply to such a build, otherwise they would mention it; I'm just waiting for some sort of confirmation. Perhaps I should email customer service on this one.
Lord_Anthrax
11-19-04, 07:20 AM It's not hard if you think about it from a single-class multiclassing perspective.

For example: Bob the Human starts play as a Fighter-Rogue. He decides his favored class is Fighter. He does this for 3 levels, and switches to Cleric-Wizard. Since his new "class" doesn't have any Fighter component, he's taking an XP penalty for having two classes two or more levels apart from his effective Rogue level. If Bob had decided to go into Fighter-Cleric instead, his Fighter level wouldn't count, so it would only be the difference between Rogue and Cleric that penalizes him, and he'd take a penalty for having one class two or more levels apart.

If you don't want to be as harsh, you can rule that a "new" Gestalt class only counts as one class for XP penalties(and in the above example, Bob would only take an XP hit for one class by going into Cleric-Wizard), and/or rule that as long as you continue progression in your favored class, whatever other class that's part of it doesn't count(and in the above example, Bob wouldn't take an XP penalty by going into Fighter-Cleric).

It all depends on how loose you want to be about allowing multiclassing in a Gestalt game. I ignore XP penalties for multiclassing, so it's not a concern for me.
monkeybone
11-19-04, 03:10 PM Yeah, that's how I was seeing it, as well. Normally, I don't get too worked up about multi-classing, but with gestalt it's a whole new ballgame, one that already starts with a significant advantage. Maybe it's the purist in me that plays a class through twenty levels or so, maybe it's the cautious dm that thinks things over before ruling, but I think gestalt was built with the 1e dual-class spirit in mind (whether consciously or unconsciously), and that straying off course can lead to unforseen problems for both players and dm alike. If anything, it might make a character too weak, and end in ruin, but I suppose that's the freedom of the game; being whatever it is that you want to be.
Lord_Anthrax
11-19-04, 08:33 PM My suggestion on Gestalt characters is to restrict multiclassing to those who can really justify it, cutting down on the amplification of "cherry picking" that Gestalts can present, and in cases where they continue progress with one class not to restart save bonuses from level one. For example, a Fighter-Barbarian(good BAB, good Fort save)multiclasses into Barbarian-Frenzied Berzerker. For taking that first level of Frenzied Berzerker, don't give them the +2 Fort saves, since they're still advancing as a Barbarian, and the BAB and good save is the same for both. Now, if they multiclassed into something that also had, say, Reflex as a good save, then from that level on they increase saves with Fortitude and Reflex as good saves, but still don't get that +2 from the start of the new class.

Only restart the saves if it's a completely new class. If they were a Fighter-Rogue and went into Cleric-Wizard, then let them start over with the +2 to Fort and Will, since that's more in the spirit of the single-class multiclassing rules. By the same token, they're starting over with BAB progression, but that too is like single-class multiclassing.
Dunelord
11-21-04, 06:03 PM I would say since the Gestalt rules don't mention a different XP penailty they would still have the normal ones. As to trying to restrict Gestalt chracters there doesn't seem much point in general seeing as how the point is that they are supposed to be more powerful.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
monkeybone 11-18-04, 04:02 PM	I've most of the basics on gestalt but I'm looking for some feedback regarding exp. point penalties. From what I've read of this class, you have the option to take more than your initial two classes, but I'm curious about the penalties for doing so. For example, a half-elf gestalt character that starts with cleric1/wizard1/rogue2 should incur no exp. penalty, but when that player reaches cleric1/wizard2/rogue3 a penalty should kick in, no? If so, I imagine this would encourage a player to stick to the two initial classes and opt for prestige classes instead, which incur no exp. point penalty. Feedback?
Tein 11-18-04, 05:55 PM	I don't know how that would work I have a rouge, ranger, paladin, outsider. I think the nicest way would be just to say no to exp. peniltys. Oh by the way you can only take one prestage class at a time.
monkeybone 11-18-04, 06:19 PM	Yeah, I'm aware of the rule that prohibits more than one prestige class at a time; however, I think waving a xp penalty to an already powerful class is flirting with disaster. It seems like the normal penalties would apply to such a build, otherwise they would mention it; I'm just waiting for some sort of confirmation. Perhaps I should email customer service on this one.
Lord_Anthrax 11-19-04, 07:20 AM	It's not hard if you think about it from a single-class multiclassing perspective. For example: Bob the Human starts play as a Fighter-Rogue. He decides his favored class is Fighter. He does this for 3 levels, and switches to Cleric-Wizard. Since his new "class" doesn't have any Fighter component, he's taking an XP penalty for having two classes two or more levels apart from his effective Rogue level. If Bob had decided to go into Fighter-Cleric instead, his Fighter level wouldn't count, so it would only be the difference between Rogue and Cleric that penalizes him, and he'd take a penalty for having one class two or more levels apart. If you don't want to be as harsh, you can rule that a "new" Gestalt class only counts as one class for XP penalties(and in the above example, Bob would only take an XP hit for one class by going into Cleric-Wizard), and/or rule that as long as you continue progression in your favored class, whatever other class that's part of it doesn't count(and in the above example, Bob wouldn't take an XP penalty by going into Fighter-Cleric). It all depends on how loose you want to be about allowing multiclassing in a Gestalt game. I ignore XP penalties for multiclassing, so it's not a concern for me.
monkeybone 11-19-04, 03:10 PM	Yeah, that's how I was seeing it, as well. Normally, I don't get too worked up about multi-classing, but with gestalt it's a whole new ballgame, one that already starts with a significant advantage. Maybe it's the purist in me that plays a class through twenty levels or so, maybe it's the cautious dm that thinks things over before ruling, but I think gestalt was built with the 1e dual-class spirit in mind (whether consciously or unconsciously), and that straying off course can lead to unforseen problems for both players and dm alike. If anything, it might make a character too weak, and end in ruin, but I suppose that's the freedom of the game; being whatever it is that you want to be.
Lord_Anthrax 11-19-04, 08:33 PM	My suggestion on Gestalt characters is to restrict multiclassing to those who can really justify it, cutting down on the amplification of "cherry picking" that Gestalts can present, and in cases where they continue progress with one class not to restart save bonuses from level one. For example, a Fighter-Barbarian(good BAB, good Fort save)multiclasses into Barbarian-Frenzied Berzerker. For taking that first level of Frenzied Berzerker, don't give them the +2 Fort saves, since they're still advancing as a Barbarian, and the BAB and good save is the same for both. Now, if they multiclassed into something that also had, say, Reflex as a good save, then from that level on they increase saves with Fortitude and Reflex as good saves, but still don't get that +2 from the start of the new class. Only restart the saves if it's a completely new class. If they were a Fighter-Rogue and went into Cleric-Wizard, then let them start over with the +2 to Fort and Will, since that's more in the spirit of the single-class multiclassing rules. By the same token, they're starting over with BAB progression, but that too is like single-class multiclassing.
Dunelord 11-21-04, 06:03 PM	I would say since the Gestalt rules don't mention a different XP penailty they would still have the normal ones. As to trying to restrict Gestalt chracters there doesn't seem much point in general seeing as how the point is that they are supposed to be more powerful.