Gestalt Characters.. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Gestalt Characters.. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Origin
09-18-05, 06:16 PM I read about Gestalt Characters for the first time today, and I now know why they are never allowed in most competitions or challenges. Very neat and appealing to me, but what exactly are the rules for prestige classing?

I think I might try one out..
Tyler Do'Urden
09-18-05, 07:01 PM Well, first and foremost, Gestalt isn't a character variant, it's a campaign variant. Either everyone's gestalt or nobody is.

Prestige classes that are essentially combinations of two classes (mystic theurge, eldritch knight, arcane trickster, etc) aren't allowed, 'cause you can just gestalt the relevant base classes. You can't gestalt two prestige classes. You couldn't be a fighter/wizard 5|duelist/arcane archer 1.

It is suggested that DMs of gestalt games should strengthen the prerequisites of prestige classes so you can't get into them before 5th level, but it's not necessarily a rule.

Don't forget; you never take the same level twice. So you can't be a cleric of kord/cleric of heironeous or an evoker/illusionist or an egoist/shaper. Also means you can't go psion/fighter 2|wizard/fighter 2 and expect to get four fighter bonus feats (i.e. taking fighter levels 1 and 2 over and over again.
lostone
09-19-05, 07:58 AM The biggest reason that Gestalt rules are not used in competitions is because they are not written the greatest. They can be interpreted in many different ways and it would be difficult to adjudicate fairly in a competition without rewriting and clarifying the rules. When we tried them in my group of four players, we ended up with four different understandings of the gestalt rules. :D

There is a Gestalt Handbook thread somewhere around here that is attempting to clarify them some.

Edit: Here is the thread. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=499242) It is intended for optimizing gestalt characters but they've also taken some time to clarify the gestalt rules. It is a work in progress, only about 10 days old.
warlock man
10-01-05, 09:29 AM well, you could have ur prestige class be gestalted with a core class, and take it up like that
Airsucker
10-01-05, 11:12 AM I think gestalt might kind of be meant for times when a DM only has one or two players and they don't want to run more than one character. This way you can run just a couple of characters and they've got most of the necessary abilities covered.
strenoth
10-01-05, 12:01 PM I think gestalt might kind of be meant for times when a DM only has one or two players and they don't want to run more than one character. This way you can run just a couple of characters and they've got most of the necessary abilities covered.

that's exactly what it's intended for.
Cynlas
10-04-05, 04:12 PM As my dnd group is small, specifically at the three player group mentioned in UA, I went with a gestalt campaign this time around. It works out pretty good, except that everyone is a combo fighter (that is, a cleric-fighter, psion-fighter, and a monk(ish)-fighter) :(

Anyway, as the PrC and Multiclass rules listed in the UA were not particularly consistent imho, I am using (theoretically, as only a single NPC has bothered with PrCs so far) the following "house" rule for the issue:

A Gestalt class is a "single" class, not unlike the idea that a Paladin is a "hybrid" of the Fighter-Cleric. As such, when moving out of the gestalt class, the character can only multiclass into a single other class, or when taking up a PrC, its advancement take the place of both sub-classes that make up the Gestalt class.

For instance, a Fighter-Psion could multiclass into the Rogue class, but not a gestalt Rogue-Cleric. And, when advancing the rogue levels, the character only gets the rogue abilities for that level, not the rogue-plus-1/2 the Gestalt class. Similarly, should the character choose to enter the Slayer PrC, then the PrC advances in lieu of the gestalt class, in toto. No having the PrC suborn one element of the gestalt class while advancing another part.

The additional items to consider that I changed to make this work better is: all the "hybrid" classes (Ranger, Paladin, Bard, and even Psiwarrior) are using the PrC variants from the UA, and I do allow those PrCs that are essentially gestalts themselves, like the Sapphire Hierarch in MoI, as these are primarily the only ones "worth" giving up your entire gestalt class for anyway. As a RP consideration to help "force" my players to keep in mind the unity of their gestalt class, I have them (or create for them) a class "title" to reference, rather than referring to the gestalt "component classes". Instead of saying "I'm an elven Scout-Chaos Monk", they would instead say "I'm an elven Wardancer" or some such. It also has the benefit of being able to add a bit more world-specific flavor into the campaign.

So, in essence, treat the gestalt as a "single" class, like the "Elf" was in the old boxed sets (where it was simply a single class, not a Fighter-mage (which were the basic components of the elf "class")), and ignore all that stuff in UA about choosing which element of your gestalt you are going to drop when adding a new class; simply force a "drop" in the entire thing, as it functionally is only one class, and follow the normal rules for multiclassing or adding a PrC.

At least, that is how I do it here.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Origin 09-18-05, 06:16 PM	I read about Gestalt Characters for the first time today, and I now know why they are never allowed in most competitions or challenges. Very neat and appealing to me, but what exactly are the rules for prestige classing? I think I might try one out..
Tyler Do'Urden 09-18-05, 07:01 PM	Well, first and foremost, Gestalt isn't a character variant, it's a campaign variant. Either everyone's gestalt or nobody is. Prestige classes that are essentially combinations of two classes (mystic theurge, eldritch knight, arcane trickster, etc) aren't allowed, 'cause you can just gestalt the relevant base classes. You can't gestalt two prestige classes. You couldn't be a fighter/wizard 5\|duelist/arcane archer 1. It is suggested that DMs of gestalt games should strengthen the prerequisites of prestige classes so you can't get into them before 5th level, but it's not necessarily a rule. Don't forget; you never take the same level twice. So you can't be a cleric of kord/cleric of heironeous or an evoker/illusionist or an egoist/shaper. Also means you can't go psion/fighter 2\|wizard/fighter 2 and expect to get four fighter bonus feats (i.e. taking fighter levels 1 and 2 over and over again.
lostone 09-19-05, 07:58 AM	The biggest reason that Gestalt rules are not used in competitions is because they are not written the greatest. They can be interpreted in many different ways and it would be difficult to adjudicate fairly in a competition without rewriting and clarifying the rules. When we tried them in my group of four players, we ended up with four different understandings of the gestalt rules. :D There is a Gestalt Handbook thread somewhere around here that is attempting to clarify them some. Edit: Here is the thread. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=499242) It is intended for optimizing gestalt characters but they've also taken some time to clarify the gestalt rules. It is a work in progress, only about 10 days old.
warlock man 10-01-05, 09:29 AM	well, you could have ur prestige class be gestalted with a core class, and take it up like that
Airsucker 10-01-05, 11:12 AM	I think gestalt might kind of be meant for times when a DM only has one or two players and they don't want to run more than one character. This way you can run just a couple of characters and they've got most of the necessary abilities covered.
strenoth 10-01-05, 12:01 PM	I think gestalt might kind of be meant for times when a DM only has one or two players and they don't want to run more than one character. This way you can run just a couple of characters and they've got most of the necessary abilities covered. that's exactly what it's intended for.
Cynlas 10-04-05, 04:12 PM	As my dnd group is small, specifically at the three player group mentioned in UA, I went with a gestalt campaign this time around. It works out pretty good, except that everyone is a combo fighter (that is, a cleric-fighter, psion-fighter, and a monk(ish)-fighter) :( Anyway, as the PrC and Multiclass rules listed in the UA were not particularly consistent imho, I am using (theoretically, as only a single NPC has bothered with PrCs so far) the following "house" rule for the issue: A Gestalt class is a "single" class, not unlike the idea that a Paladin is a "hybrid" of the Fighter-Cleric. As such, when moving out of the gestalt class, the character can only multiclass into a single other class, or when taking up a PrC, its advancement take the place of both sub-classes that make up the Gestalt class. For instance, a Fighter-Psion could multiclass into the Rogue class, but not a gestalt Rogue-Cleric. And, when advancing the rogue levels, the character only gets the rogue abilities for that level, not the rogue-plus-1/2 the Gestalt class. Similarly, should the character choose to enter the Slayer PrC, then the PrC advances in lieu of the gestalt class, in toto. No having the PrC suborn one element of the gestalt class while advancing another part. The additional items to consider that I changed to make this work better is: all the "hybrid" classes (Ranger, Paladin, Bard, and even Psiwarrior) are using the PrC variants from the UA, and I do allow those PrCs that are essentially gestalts themselves, like the Sapphire Hierarch in MoI, as these are primarily the only ones "worth" giving up your entire gestalt class for anyway. As a RP consideration to help "force" my players to keep in mind the unity of their gestalt class, I have them (or create for them) a class "title" to reference, rather than referring to the gestalt "component classes". Instead of saying "I'm an elven Scout-Chaos Monk", they would instead say "I'm an elven Wardancer" or some such. It also has the benefit of being able to add a bit more world-specific flavor into the campaign. So, in essence, treat the gestalt as a "single" class, like the "Elf" was in the old boxed sets (where it was simply a single class, not a Fighter-mage (which were the basic components of the elf "class")), and ignore all that stuff in UA about choosing which element of your gestalt you are going to drop when adding a new class; simply force a "drop" in the entire thing, as it functionally is only one class, and follow the normal rules for multiclassing or adding a PrC. At least, that is how I do it here.