Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Wyrd 07-08-04, 05:57 AM	We're starting a campaign soon, with gestalt characters @ lvl 9. They will all be using a giant racial progression along with a normal class progression according to the gestalt rules, so no double classes at any moment. What are your experiences with DM'ing gestalt parties ... what kind of CR's can they handle, and how often per day ?
Camellan 07-08-04, 11:10 AM	I'm running one gestalt campaign and playing in another, so I'll give you what what advice I can. If you've got a normal sized group (4 or so), rating them at about a CR higher seems to be about right. So, for your party of 9th level characters, CR10 encounters seem to be about right for the 20-25% resource expenditure that's supposed to be a reasonable encounter. What you do get by gestalting: More options. The Paladin/Sorcerer (for example) and attack with his greatword, or throw a scorching ray, or cast a buff spell, or do any one of a number of things. What this gives you is more staying power. The Paladin/Sorcerer, when down on spells can pick up the greatsword and start in with the Smiting. If he's gone the other way and used up the smitings, then he can throw his spells. Usually, the PCs can survive about two more encounters before stopping. This is mainly because of what you don't get by gestalting: Feats, Hit points and Equipment. The aforementioned Paladin/Sorcerer has no more hit points than any Paladin of the equivalent level. He probably has less AC, because he can't wear armor, and has less other stuff to handle situations because he has to spend his equipment cash on things to get that AC up. He's either had to neglect part of his training, or use some of his meagre number of feats to support both of his classes. Eventually, the hit points and the healing run out, and you have to stop. That seems to be the limiting factor "I'm out of spells to heal everyone with". Hope this helps
Riznar 07-08-04, 02:04 PM	I've noticed two types of gestalt characters. The most common are those with more staying power, like the sorc/pally. These characters fullfill two roles at once, and can take more encounters per day than other classes. Then their are classes that synergize well into a single type. Swashbuckler/Rogues for instance dish out crazy amounts of damage but have less stamina than other combinations. Though they can increase their stamina by not using it in the first place. My group can handle 2 CRs higher than them pretty easily...UNLESS that creature grapples a lot, gestalt gives no real benefit to grappling. A gelatinous grizzly bear almost TPK'd them before I realized this.
Camellan 07-09-04, 10:14 AM	I was talking with my wife (the DM of the other campaign) and she said "probably +2 CR". She also pointed out that since in most cases you can get a couple more encounters in before resting, that it seems that leveling up happens more often/faster. Especially true if you don't remember to count the characters as that +2 ECL that they're getting from Gestalting.
Annaylli 07-09-04, 10:49 AM	Generally I run +1 CR and up encounters to 6 between rests. We usually run 32 point buy which is +1 CR by itself.
Deathmage 07-09-04, 11:47 PM	i'm playing in a gestalt campain right now, and i have to say, it is quite fun. i'm playing a sorc/mystic (just so you know, it's a sorc version of the cleric printed in dragonlance), and i can last quite a lot longer then just being a sorc or mystic. it allows for 2 to 3 good saves (normally) and almost always at least meidum base attack. however, often this means you need higher stats because your trying to support more stats then usual. lucking my DM did 4D6 drop lowest reroll ones. gestalt allows for a group of 3 or 4 to traval around and still be able to battle and last like a group of 5 or 6. however, you have to watch for combos that can make things horrably broken, which can eaisly happen, though hopefully your players don't do something like that. depending on how the group is, a fighting mix tends to be a little more helpful then a spellcasting mix, mainly because spell casting is level based. a magic and fighting combo tends to be good, but one of the best is a cleric mixed with a fighting type, cause you have healing along with the ability to smash and slash. though as i've said before, doing this requires higher stats then normal, so if you do gestalt, and then give out a whole 32 point buy, you will be more powerful, but not too much so cause you have to have so many high stats.
Deathmage 07-09-04, 11:47 PM	i'm playing in a gestalt campain right now, and i have to say, it is quite fun. i'm playing a sorc/mystic (just so you know, it's a sorc version of the cleric printed in dragonlance), and i can last quite a lot longer then just being a sorc or mystic. it allows for 2 to 3 good saves (normally) and almost always at least meidum base attack. however, often this means you need higher stats because your trying to support more stats then usual. lucking my DM did 4D6 drop lowest reroll ones. gestalt allows for a group of 3 or 4 to traval around and still be able to battle and last like a group of 5 or 6. however, you have to watch for combos that can make things horrably broken, which can eaisly happen, though hopefully your players don't do something like that. depending on how the group is, a fighting mix tends to be a little more helpful then a spellcasting mix, mainly because spell casting is level based. a magic and fighting combo tends to be good, but one of the best is a cleric mixed with a fighting type, cause you have healing along with the ability to smash and slash. though as i've said before, doing this requires higher stats then normal, so if you do gestalt, and then give out a whole 32 point buy, you will be more powerful, but not too much so cause you have to have so many high stats.
Deathmage 07-09-04, 11:48 PM	sorry bout that, my internet sucks, didn't mean to do it twice
Astin_Dextor 07-10-04, 08:09 PM	One thing people forget when talking about Gestalt, is that it's basically the same as 2nd Ed multiclassing. It's a little more powerful, but in using in our games to make up for having only one or two party members, we found that we barely got any real advantage out of it unless we looked entirely at synergized concepts (druid/psychic warrior was one example, fighter/sorcerer with weapon foc/spec in rays was another...those were painful enervations...)
Wyrd 07-15-04, 03:59 AM	Has anyone used Gestalt to combine monster with normal progression ? We are starting a campaign where you have one monsterclass and one normal class. My character is a Troll 9 / Wizard 4 Arachnomancer 5 Another is a Stone Giant 9 / Hexblade 3 Shugenja 6 etc etc.