Post/Author/DateTime	Post
77IM 02-26-04, 08:21 PM	So, I hate the Gestalt rules, and I really really hate the Epic level rules, but inside my twisted brain two wrongs make a right and I think that combining these rules could produce something I like. Here's how it would work: After 20th level, you start adding "Gestalt levels." You select a single class, and that class's values and abilities replace your current ones if they are better (or stack if they are orthogonal). Each time you do this, you recalculate your BAB and base saves to be the highest that they could be from any combination of 20 of your class levels. So if you are a Wiz 20 and you add 1 level of Gestalt Fighter, your BAB would increase to +11 (the value of a Fighter1/Wiz19) but your Will save would not change (since the highest Will save you could get is +12 for being a Wiz20). You roll hit points normally, although the max you can ever have is equal to the max for your best combo of 20 classes (so you're not likely to hit the max until around 30th-40th Gestalt level). Skill points are trickier; for simplicity, you just get normal skill points for your class, minus 2 (to a minimum of zero for a new level). You could increase your max skill ranks through feats. You would still get character feats every 3 Gestalt Levels (level 21, level 24, etc) and could pick most Epic feats, and an ability score increase every 4 Gestalt Levels. However, your character level is still 20th and will always remain 20th (the Gestalt Levels are like ECL). You can add as many Gestalt levels as you wish, including PrCs As an alternative to the given Epic spell-acquisition system, a special epic PrC will be available to spellcasters. It would give them a single 10th-level slot, plus bonus spells, plus another slot each time they gain a level (applied to any level, so long as there are as many or more slots at each level below it). I like this system because characters improve in power non-numerically. In other words, instead of just getting your fighter's base attack higher and higher (as an Epic fighter would), he instead can learn rage or sneak attack or start piling on abilities from PrCs. Of course, your Wiz20 who starts adding fighter levels is going to improve his BAB, but not beyond the fighter max. A downside of this system is that it might encourage too much diversification at high levels rather than specialization, especially for fighter-types who's BAB is already maxxed out (or rogues with max skill ranks). -- 77IM, on the good stuff tonight
strenoth 02-26-04, 09:08 PM	so at '40th' level, they are a 20th level gestalt... well, CRs would sure as heck have to be recalculated. at 41st level, triple-gestalt? ie.. a 20 wizard/20 cleric who gains a gestalt-level of rogue now adds skill points, sneak attack, and bumps up the ref save by 2 points.... hmm, most character woudl have all good saves by 60th level, and the power curve would be dropping drastically too. By 100th level (which is a very high level indeed to play a character att) most characters are going to be looking very similiar, as all would have a lot of skill points, 20 baB, and 12 base save, but selecting alot of PrCs woudl certainly help. overall, i'd have to say 'not for me thanks', but not a hideous system
Pagan priest 02-27-04, 02:27 AM	I haven't read gestalt yet, but the epic rules were fine as they were.
77IM 02-27-04, 10:51 AM	Strenoth, you've nailed the weakness of this system, which is that it encourages diversification rather than specialization. However, if I were to use it, I would only play to effective level 30 or maybe 40 anyway, so most characters will probably remain specialized. My feeling on the matter -- and one of the many many reasons* I don't like the Epic rules -- is that 20th level characters are already super-powered, and it'd be fun just to adventure at 20th level, except that people need something to aspire towards, so some sort of progression beyond 20th should exist. -- 77IM *which I shall not enumerate here