| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| aldymnor02-19-04, 08:11 AM | OY vay I hate starting yet another thread about these but I meant to a while ago and just now thought of it. What if you named the combinations? When I started my Gestalt Campaign a week ago, I not only said to pick two of your favorite classes but also to make a name for the hybrid it would make. Let's get this rolling, shall we? Ranger/Rogue = Avenger Druid/Monk (yes this actually came up) = Grove Hand Cleric/Ranger = Warden Sorcerer/Cleric = Theurgist Sorcerer/Druid = Shaman Sorcerer/Monk = Martial Arcanist Wizard/Druid = Gandalf (hahah..ahhe..hem. sorry.) Well, add to this if it seems interesting to you. If not, ignore me just like my Senators. |
| Banpai02-19-04, 08:37 AM | I´m shure mine are not as good as yours but it´s worth a try: Fighter/Monk: Brawler Bruce Lee and Jacky Chan were close seconds Ninja/Rogue : (Ultimate) Backstabber Rogue/Fighter: Opportunist Fighter/Sorcerer: Lina Inverse.......no thats not good better Superman :D Bard/Fighter: Hero Bard/Sorcerer: Innate Cleric/Monk: Sacred Perfectionist Ranger/Fighter:Strider Paladin/Fighter:Crussader Paladin/Monk: Holy Fist Paladin/ Sorcerer: Palcerer ;) Holy Smiteblaster I better stop now the names become worse and worse |
| Banpai02-19-04, 11:50 AM | Moooooooore Rogue/Barbarian:Conan or Devastator chause hits with his greataxe are going to be truly devastating Rogue/Monk: Ninja Rogue/Paladin:Smitesneak (need not even to rewrite Code of Honor as long as i don´t use poison) Rogue/Cleric: The Saint (great movie) Rogue/Druid: Sneaky Squirrel |
| Salla02-19-04, 01:47 PM | Rogue/Monk=Ninja. Cleric/Paladin=Divine Soldier Fighter/Barbarian=Cuisinart Wizard/Sorcerer=Merlin's Older Meaner Brother |
| Elzaban the Ethereal02-19-04, 03:58 PM | This is just asking for the obvious question of: should they be serious or funny? From what you posted, aldymnor, I'll go with serious. ;) Monk/Paladin of Yondalla = Sacred Warrior of the Hin Fist :P Swashbuckler/Urban Ranger = Daring Inspector Shujenja/Samurai (OE) = Honored Spellwarrior Aristocrat/Hexblade = Dark Baron Cleric of Vecna/Rogue = Retreiver of Secrets Necromancer/Rogue = Graverobber Non-Spellcasting Paladin/Psychic Warrior = Holy Mindwarrior Cloistered Cleric of Deep Duerra/Telepath (Psion) = Unholy Mindbreaker Druid/Bard = Pied Piper Eidolancer/Wizard = Ectomancer Shaman/Barbarian = Tribal Cheiftain Monk/Sohei = High Temple Guardian Wu-Jen/Wizard = Master of the Arcane Secret Eidelon/Fighter = Ghastly Featmaster Whee! Using the random and weird classes from OC, CW, UA, PsiH, and Ghostwalk is fun! :P |
| WizO_Pony02-19-04, 04:25 PM | Here are my suggestions: A few of these are already in use as prestige class names, but this list covers all possible two class combinations of the classes in the PHB. * indicates a class that is normally prohibited by alignment restrictions barbarian/bard: Skald barbarian/cleric: Fanatic barbarian/druid: Wild Shaman barbarian/fighter: Gladiator barbarian/monk*: Bruiser barbarian/paladin*: Zealot barbarian/ranger: Savage Hound barbarian/rogue: Freebooter barbarian/sorcerer: Rage Mage barbarian/wizard: Savage Scholar bard/cleric: Canticler bard/druid: Songbird bard/fighter: Herald (or maybe Drummer ;) ) bard/monk*: Dancer bard/paladin*: Anthem Keeper bard/ranger: Yodeler bard/rogue: Huckster bard/sorcerer: Diva bard/wizard: Prodigy cleric/druid: Prophet cleric/fighter: Champion cleric/monk: Devoted Disciple cleric/paladin: Knight cleric/ranger: Crusader cleric/rogue: Judge cleric/sorcerer: Miraculist cleric/wizard: Studious Adept druid/fighter: Beastmaster druid/monk: Master of Form druid/paladin*: Master Horseman druid/ranger: Warden druid/rogue: Poacher druid/sorcerer: Fabulist (or maybe Witch/Warlock) druid/wizard: Naturalist fighter/monk: Brawler fighter/paladin: Sword Saint fighter/ranger: Hunter fighter/rogue: Swashbuckler fighter/sorcerer: Battlemage fighter/wizard: War Wizard monk/paladin: Defender monk/ranger: Frontiersman/woman monk/rogue: Ninja monk/sorcerer: Mystic monk/wizard: Cabalist paladin/ranger: Investigator paladin/rogue: Vanguard paladin/sorcerer: Incorruptable Advocate paladin/wizard: Gifted Adept ranger/rogue: Scout ranger/sorcerer: Arcane Sentinel ranger/wizard: Reckoner rogue/sorcerer: Legerdemainiac rogue/wizard: Trickster sorcerer/wizard: Master Arcanist |
| Szatany02-19-04, 05:00 PM | Evoker/Sorcerer - Havoc |
| aldymnor02-19-04, 06:47 PM | Rage Mage!!! I miss those! They should have brought some wild magic rules into UA. That would have been sweet. Anyway, I love all these and I hope this doesn't die out. To answer the question to me; serious or funny. Heck, divide it up. I thought the Liina Inverse line was cute. In my Gestalt Campaign, I was seriously toying with the idea of there being certain organizations that made you Gestalt when you belonged to them. This was actually inspired by Jedi in Star Wars (but not the d20 RPG because this would clearly be off.) Basically let's say there's a Gestalt Organization that involved Druids. Druid/Barbarian: Savage of the Grove would be their name. It sort of directly says which class they are, plus "of the Grove" which is Gestaltish for "+Druid." Those organizations make naming the classes pretty easy but I much prefer the way things are going with this thread, so I won't derail it further. I just wanted to put the idea out there. |
| ZebRaderJedi02-19-04, 07:27 PM | fighter/wizard: GISH!!! fighter/sorcerer: GISH!!! ranger/wizard: GISH!!! ranger/sorcerer: GISH!!! and so on.... :D |
| Myztek02-19-04, 07:31 PM | Druid/Rogue - Richard Gere *cough* |
| DarkThoughts2402-19-04, 07:32 PM | fighter/warmage-demolitions expert ranger/rogue-poacher |
| Impeesa02-19-04, 08:15 PM | Sorceror/Wizard: Wand of Fireballs. ;) --Impeesa-- |
| themind02-19-04, 08:40 PM | Just like the book says: Barbarian/Bard - "Bardarian" |
| Xaxor02-19-04, 09:34 PM | Psychic Warrior/Monk - Neo :D Psychic Warrior/Rogue - ???? |
| Dark Psion02-19-04, 11:39 PM | Psion/ Psychic Warrior= Jedi Psion/ Barbarian= Psicotic Psion/ Rouge= Psilencer Psion/ Cleric= Elightened Psion/ Ranger= Beastmaster Psion/ Druid= Psychic Squirrel Psion/ Bard= Psideshow or Psiren Psychic Warrior/ Rogue= Psideswipe Psion/ Sorcerer= Overkill and for the Anime fans Psion/ Monk= Tien (Dragonball Z) Psion/ Fighter= Yuske Urameshi (Yu Yu Hakusho) Commoner(Slacker)/ Shaman= Yoh Asakura (Shaman King) |
| MysteryGilgamesh02-20-04, 12:19 AM | Monk/Sorcerer: Goku. (Kaaa-meee-haaaa-meeee-Uh...I mean...FIREBALL!) Barbarian/Fighter: Hulk (HULK SMASH!) Seriously though... Monk/Sorcerer or Monk/Wizard: Ninja (Well, the anime version. Ever read Naruto, or watch Ninja Scroll? ^_~) Fighter/Barbarian: Peerless Warrior Monk/Psychic Warrior or Monk/Psion: Order of the Minds Prowess. Rogue/Monk: Ninja (Real life version) Fighter/Monk: Master of Dragons Fist. (Or just call him Bruce Lee) |
| aldymnor02-20-04, 12:35 AM | Quick FYI: ninjas did very, very little even combat. They were assassins by trade, and if they had to fight, it was a pretty bad day for them. Sneaking up and stabbing was the most direct thing they would do, and that was last-resort. If they were caught, they were killed most of the time. Very, very few of them could hold their own in a "fair" fight. They were given a target, then they killed him and hoped they got in and out alive. Read Secrets of the Samurai if you want proof. I'm a Japanese culture major in college, and this is such a common misconception that I could almost scream. A rogue is most like a ninja, but if I had to make a ninja combination, I'd take rogue/illusionist. That's all. I understand that gaming culture has rendered a totally separate opinion on what a ninja is, but I still thought I'd share. Yes they were trained for combat. But kung fu movies aren't real and 3 guards can kill one infiltrator usually. Myztek, very nice ;) Edit: and I'm not very much into anime at all anymore but I LOVE Ninja Scroll :) |
| strenoth02-20-04, 04:48 AM | psi-warrior/fighter: Master of the Feats of War C'mon.. 4 bonus feats by level 2? |
| aldymnor02-20-04, 07:10 AM | WizO_Pony, way to be a stallion (no pun intended). This has already helped me (yes for my houserules I'm actually mandating new names for Gestalt combinations and I'm probably just gonna take some of these. None of this content is published of course, and only my own material would be.) I think Witch derived from the feminine form for Wizard, so I usually call female wizard witches (and ask players to excuse the cultural cue that usually reminds them of hags). Sorcerer/Wizards I'm actually calling Warlocks now. I really love that name; glad it got a lil place in my campaign. Paladin/Cleric: Hospitaler Paladin/Fighter: Knight Templar |
| Banpai02-20-04, 07:50 AM | Whoa this thread has grown alot and I am particularly impressed by WizO_Ponys list. Now some Swashbuckler combinations: Swashbuckler/Fighter = Musketier(sp) Swashbuckler/Rogue = Swiftstrike Swashbuckler/Paladin = Divine Duellist Swashbuckler/Cleric = Finess Prist |
| Kaya Kenobi02-20-04, 11:20 AM | Originally posted by aldymnor WizO_Pony, way to be a stallion (no pun intended). This has already helped me (yes for my houserules I'm actually mandating new names for Gestalt combinations and I'm probably just gonna take some of these. None of this content is published of course, and only my own material would be.) I think Witch derived from the feminine form for Wizard, so I usually call female wizard witches (and ask players to excuse the cultural cue that usually reminds them of hags). Sorcerer/Wizards I'm actually calling Warlocks now. I really love that name; glad it got a lil place in my campaign. Paladin/Cleric: Hospitaler Paladin/Fighter: Knight Templar Witch/Warlock... Works either way. :D |
| Tenzhi02-20-04, 11:47 AM | Originally posted by aldymnor But kung fu movies aren't real Strangely enough, neither are dragons, phoenixes, or goblins... damn the myths and legends for creeping into a game based on myth and legend! :behold: Monk/Rogue=Lu Xiao Feng Monk/Paladin=Ximen Chui Xue Bard/Rogue=Hua Man Lou Monk/Fighter=Yu Gu Cheng Horizon Walker/Loremaster= Tian Zhi Ti Hsien |
| DarkThoughts2402-20-04, 10:02 PM | Marshall/paladin-divine lieutenant Marshal/cleric-General-of-the-cloth monk/hexblade-temple of the shattered mirror ranger/hexblade-pale hunter ranger monk-naturalist |
| aldymnor02-20-04, 10:18 PM | Originally posted by Tenzhi Strangely enough, neither are dragons, phoenixes, or goblins... damn the myths and legends for creeping into a game based on myth and legend! Originally posted by Aldymnor I understand that gaming culture has rendered a totally separate opinion on what a ninja is, but I still thought I'd share. Yeah. Again, it was just a sidenote. |
| DarkThoughts2402-20-04, 10:43 PM | bard/wizard=band geek favored soul/cleric-conduit of the faithful rogue/paladin-internal inquisitors wizard/paladin-knight of the sage fighter/wizard-the order of the engraved blade sorc/marshal-arcane commander |
| aldymnor02-20-04, 10:52 PM | Originally posted by DarkThoughts24 rogue/paladin-internal inquisitors I was thinking Urban Ranger / Paladin could be a good inquisitor too :D That would be kind of cool. Less powerful than other gestalts of course. |
| Josh_Kablack02-20-04, 10:53 PM | Originally posted by aldymnor Quick FYI: ninjas did very, very little even combat. They were assassins by trade, and if they had to fight, it was a pretty bad day for them. <snip> That's all. I understand that gaming culture has rendered a totally separate opinion on what a ninja is, but I still thought I'd share. Yes they were trained for combat. But kung fu movies aren't real and 3 guards can kill one infiltrator usually. Sorry to continue this digression, but I'd like to point out that a Gestalt Monk/Rogue has a lower BAB, worse armor, fewer weapon proficiencies and only the same size HD as members of the NPC warrior class. So in a toe to toe fight against the average guard of the same level, he stands to lose. He needs the advantage of luck or surprise to win. However a gestalt Monk/Rogue is sneaky as all get out, can scale walls and drop from great heights (slow fall), ignore distractions when performing difficult tasks (skill focus), strike from ambush for great effects (sneak attack, crippling strike), fight without need of weapons, run fast enough to escape most pursuit (fast movement) and even bypass solid walls (abundant step). That is a much better match for your conception of the ninja than a sneaky guy with a familiar who can throw fireballs, summon demons, drop walls of iron on the battlefield or animate corpses. If Illusionists had access to ONLY spells from the Illusion spell, I could see the Rog/Illusionist combo working quite well for your ninja, but Illusionists also get access to 5 other schools of magic, which contain a number of spells that are completely out of character for ninjas in anybody's concept. My bigger problem with using "Ninja" for the Monk/Rogue combo is that there are already multiple ninja classes available as both core and prestige classes in a number of sourcebooks. Thus the word "Ninja" has a good chance of being a confusing name for a class in many games. |
| DarkThoughts2402-20-04, 10:56 PM | Originally posted by aldymnor I was thinking Urban Ranger / Paladin could be a good inquisitor too :D That would be kind of cool. Less powerful than other gestalts of course. i think of them more as a secret police for the church then. the internal inquisition needs to be far more subtle actually thinking hard about just making gestalts more a prestigious openign class with official titles more than just uber classmishing |
| heretic88802-22-04, 01:11 AM | Pardon me, guys, but... Quick FYI: ninjas did very, very little even combat. This is blatantly untrue. The vast majority of "ninja" (Iga no Mono and Koga no Mono) that we know about were guerilla fighters and commandos. If you take a look at the Bansenshukai, for example, there is but one volume covering espionage (and reconaissance) while there are three volumes covering the particulars of commando warfare, surprise attacks, night-fighting, hit-and-run scatter tactics, ambushes, and so on. They were assassins by trade Also blatantly untrue. The actual number of recorded assassinations (or attempted assassinations) attributed to the Iga and Koga groups is very small in number. The Bansenshukai and similar sources don't seem to be concerned with assassination training at all. Neither do existing ninjutsu ryuha like the Togakure ryu. By all accounts, the "Ninja's" focus seems to be on espionage, reconaissance, and commando warfare. Not assassination. and if they had to fight, it was a pretty bad day for them. If we are talking about an espionage mission, then sure. If we're talking about a guerilla mission, though, then absolutely not. They were trained and expected to fight. Sneaking up and stabbing was the most direct thing they would do, and that was last-resort. Not really. There are notable ninja schools, such as Gyokko ryu and Koto ryu, that deal extensively with hand-to-hand personal combat. Please remember that the Iga and Koga groups were better-known historically for their skill in guerilla warfare and not so much for their espionage networks (that seems to have been used moreso during the Edo Period for the Tokugawa Shogunate). The actual truth is that Ninja were not very concerned with *battlefield warfare* (i.e., the kind with large numbers of guys in heavy armor and heavy weapons killing large numbers of other guys in heavy armor and heavy weapons). But, they were very much concerned with lighter, personal combat (both in terms of self-defense and commando warfare). If they were caught, they were killed most of the time. Correction. If they were caught, and couldn't escape, then they were killed *all* the time. Very, very few of them could hold their own in a "fair" fight. This is an absolutely laughable claim, that has absolutely no basis in historical evidence. Contemporary records of the time seem to indicate the Iga and Koga groups were very much revered and respected for their skill in combat and defense. It was one of the primary reasons Iga and Koga were left relatively alone for the vast majority of their histories (with the single major exception of Oda Nobuo and Oda Nobunaga's invasion). They were given a target, then they killed him and hoped they got in and out alive. Again, unless you're using fictional sources as resources here, that is an untrue claim. Very, very few "ninja" involved themselves in assassination. It was a rarity, to the say the least. Read Secrets of the Samurai if you want proof. "Secrets of the Samurai" is hardly a reliable source concerning "ninja" history. It is extremely biased and doesn't cite any primary sources for any of its claims. And, even so, the book does admit "ninja" were quite competent in hand-to-hand combat. It also cites the Gyokko ryu and Koto ryu, and claims Ninja trained in "jujutsu in its most pragmatic and utilitarian form". I'm a Japanese culture major in college, and this is such a common misconception that I could almost scream. But apparently not a ninja history major. :rolleyes: Try looking into a few primary sources, or even reliable secondary sources, for that matter. . A rogue is most like a ninja, but if I had to make a ninja combination, I'd take rogue/illusionist. Actually, a "historical ninja" is not anything at all like any of the classes. If you had to make a ninja combination, rogue/monk *would* be the closest thing, but even it falls terribly short. The best recourse would be to have a Ninja base class (such as the one in Rokugan, my own, or the one in the upcoming Dragon 318). Laterz. |
| aldymnor02-22-04, 01:38 AM | Originally posted by heretic888 while there are three volumes covering the particulars of commando warfare, surprise attacks, night-fighting, hit-and-run scatter tactics, ambushes, and so on. That's right. No head-to-head, long-term fighting, such as yari-ashigaru or kendo ashigaru. The tokugawa shogunate perfected the art of assassinations with their ninja and the ninja were never, ever put into a battlefield situation. Commando warfare is literally the overturning of even odds into someone's favor using whatever means necessary. No equal ground, not like a footsoldier. A lot of pop culture remembers ninja as sticking around and fighting for a long time or ninjas running around killing off army soldiers during battle and whatnot. If that situation ever did come up, it was most likely entirely by mistake. Does what I'm telling you make more sense? Maybe I wasn't clear enough because nothing you said was false. PS: have you read Secrets of the Samurai? There are at least a few dozen pages dedicated to what ninjas were ordered to do and how they were trained to do it. And yes, I'm a Japanese major. I didn't say Japanese Language. My major's official title is Asian Studies: Japan. Doesn't make me authority, it means I have exposure to authority. Again, take this to PM if you really want to continue derailing this thread. If you want to argue, take it to PM. I'll be glad to have a discussion therez. Dark Thoughts - I have no idea at all what the difference between inquisitor and internal inquisitor is. Is it a major difference? Plus in the world of D&D isn't it hard to need an internal inquisition? Seems like a few divination spells might do. I dunno, get back to me on that. |
| flyingmoose02-22-04, 01:40 AM | Right then. Back to the supposed topic. Monk/Cleric - Hoshi Monk/Druid - Shaman Monk/Fighter - Shaolin Sorceror/Wizard - Mage Cleric/Wizard - Theurge (duh) Paladin/Ranger - Crusader Paladin/Cleric - Emissary Paladin/Fighter - Champion Barbarian/Bard - Bloodscreamer (idunno, beats Bardarian) Barbarian/Wizard - Oh now you're just being silly. Hexblade/Paladin of Tyranny - Oppressor |
| Thrudjelmer02-22-04, 02:36 AM | I'm going to give this my best shot (given my lack of sleep, please forgive me). Druid/Paladin: Sacred Warden Rogue/Illusionist: Stage Magician Aristocrat/Druid: Elemental Diplomat Fighter/Hexblade: Sith Paladin/Commoner: Blessed Oaf Bard/Monk: Dancing Fist Bard/Druid: Gypsy Paladin/Rogue: Holy Shadow Diviner/Cloistered Cleric: Oracle (or Prophet) Barbarian/Psychic Warrior: Super Saiyan Sorcerer/Psion: Mystic Fighter/Monk: Gladiator Samurai/Ninja: Confused Swordsman Fighter/Bard: Herald Monk/Swashbuckler: Hollywood Martial Artist Barbarian/Necromancer: Death-dealer Bard/Cleric: Evangelist Cleric/Fighter: Paladin? Commoner/Monk: ...at the end of my rope. |
| flyingmoose02-22-04, 02:58 AM | You realize gestalting with Commoner is pointless, right? |
| aldymnor02-22-04, 05:59 AM | Originally posted by Josh_Kablack Sorry to continue this digression, but I'd like to point out that a Gestalt Monk/Rogue has a lower BAB, worse armor, fewer weapon proficiencies and only the same size HD as members of the NPC warrior class. So in a toe to toe fight against the average guard of the same level, he stands to lose. He needs the advantage of luck or surprise to win. I would emphasize that ninja were "higher level" than the guards. They were elite as hell, at least relatively to the average conscript. Most my posting is done at 4 AM ish when I'm about to hit the sack so I'm pretty sure my explanations are coming up short. In no way would an illusionist make a realistic ninjas. Ninjas did not partake realistically in any figments, glamers, anything. I'll say this just to amend any confusion my first post might have caused. Again, I'll forfeit right now that I'm pretty zonked when I write this, and re-reading it, I definitely see where discrepencies appear. But I guarantee nothing I'm talking about ever came from fiction. -By combat, I mean one on one straight out dueling, such as a fighter vs. monk combat round would have. Ninjas often snuck, ambushed or stormed, sniped (blowguns and shuriken) and most often just assassinated their way around, but rarely just held ground for any real purpose besides an immediate one. Fighters and monks, by contrast, would probably hold ground or stabilize a situation rather than just tear things to pieces before escaping. They're not great stormers, basically. Rogue/illusionist (or failing that, monk/illusionist) would be great for just completing a goal and getting the hell out. It would not be great for a "realistic" version of a ninja. I still say a rogue does that. Getting in and out and completing a few high-scale tasks is a ninja directive. Troops were just to get in; if they lived, good. If not, send more. That's what I'm trying to say. I realize it was vague. -A fair fight to a ninja was what, ninja vs. guard right? The reason they can't hold their own is here come more guards, and by more i mean dozens more. I admit this was also vague; again I'm pretty zonked when I post this. So again, monk/rogue would be fine but they stand to be a little more tankular than just a rogue, so I'm still thinking rogue more suits it. Commando tactics aren't to just sit there and melee everything that comes your way; you use your environment heavily to your advantage. Medieval soldiers were not commandos, and that's why guerilla tactics worked so well in medieval cultures. So, with everything said above, let's see which classes don't work. Fighter- meant for holding ground, isn't stealthy by trade and certainly isn't great at just storming / guerilla tactics because a fighter is built around heavy armor. Ranger- closer by far but still no cigar because they lack the edge of sneak attack, which clearly should be among the ninja abilities. Monk - Iffy but better than ranger or fighter, I'll give it that. The best part is, they don't utilize armor as much as the above two, and from what i've read, ninja didn't have much aside from cloth, which might have been thick but in D&D terms, that's padded at best. Rogue - Um. ? They're not uber, but neither were ninjas. These can sneak in nicely, can carry out storming tactics with more than one of them, and can assassinate pretty quickly. Low on hit points makes them less than desirable for melee but again, melee for long periods of time turned unfavorable for a ninja due to numbers. They're not like footsoldiers who were meant to be on even, open ground like that. This is the stuff of medieval warfare, not modern. Illusionist- not by any means realistic. I won't explain too heavily why i recommended this but I just think the concept of ninja (get in, get out, do your thing and live through it) becomes wildly easier with illusions. It isn't traditional, because magic isn't real. Shadowdancer- I forget a lot of this prc cause i never liked it but it seems good enough. Same goes for Assassin. These are probably even more likely than just straight rogue. So which two make the best ninja? *shrug* All i was saying is that ninjas weren't uber-men who can just jump into a castle, kill 20-30 guards and then the keep lord, then jump out. If that ever happened, it was probably a quick and silent process, not just a big battle scene with tons of sound effects and obvious visuals. They had specific tasks and once those were done, so was their obligation to stay. Rogue should be in there. That's the major point. Asia in general is hard to define with the classes in the PhB. Their concepts of war were similar but their delivery was much, much different in some cases. If you want realism, go rogue. It's just closest I think. If you want gestalt realism, go rogue/ranger or rogue/monk. If you want conceptual representation, there are a bunch of things you could do but I recommend rogue/illusionist. I'm not going to defend my post anymore in this thread. Please feel free to PM me if you want to know more about where I'm reading this or if you want to disagree in fine detail. Yes, my original dissent was vague and misleading. But I assure you, none of the literature I've read is fiction, not about this. By the way, Oda Nobunaga tortured ninja all the time to learn about Tokugawa's plans, so they weren't always killed, at least not right away. Legendarily, the ninja never squealed. |
| Thrudjelmer02-22-04, 10:32 AM | Originally posted by flyingmoose You realize gestalting with Commoner is pointless, right? Absolutely... it was a joke. There's a few joke combinations & names in there. As for the last one: utterly pointless, hence no name. I thought I needed something completely stupid to end my list. |
| Centurion_stalker02-22-04, 03:33 PM | Aldymor, I'd have to agree with heretic. I haven't read secrets of the samurai for about at least four or so years, so it's quite hazy. But, the book, is primarily regarded as source on the samurai rather than the ninja. THe little information they offer is truly biased and it doesn't even do the ninja credit. The koga and iga clans were more espionage, intelligence, counter-intelligence, and hit and run warfare like people. Yes, assasinations were undertook but this wasn't one of their primary attributes. Assasinations were more or less spaced out, and most of the time assasinations were handled by the direct followers/servants of the noble lords or kings of the time. NInjas were rarely called in for assasinations. Yes during the tokugawa shogunate, ninjas were elevated in position a bit, but assasination AGAIN was not a primary quality. Read books such as Taiko, if you want a somewhat fictionalized but at least a somewhat accurate historical rendition of ninja tradition. I'm not familiar with the Iga clan, but the koga clan was truly only espionage and if push came to shove guerrilla warfare. And they excelled at both. However, if you insist on saying that one ninja cannot take on a group of guards (say a dozen to half a dozen). Neither could one samurai. And by the gestalt class, a monk/rogue is the best. As their skill list is enormous allowing for that specialized versatility that was needed and appreciated in a good ninja. Plus the sneak&fast movement of the gestalt was enormously helpful. Aside from that, I'm not particularly fond of the OA ninja as in my opinion it's quite inaccurate. And oh, what's this about a new ninja class in Dragon magazine? |
| Magnificate02-22-04, 04:02 PM | Now some tricky ones (adequate names anyone?): Marshal/Urban Druid = ? Marshal/Rogue=? Hexblade/Bard = ? Healer/Warmage= ? Favoured Soul/Warmage= ? Aristocrat/Barbarian = ? Swashbuckler/Diviner = ? Urban Ranger/Barbarian;) =? Marshall/Psion = ? Anarchist*/Marshall = ? *CN paladin variant from Dragon #310 |
| aldymnor02-22-04, 04:10 PM | Originally posted by Centurion_stalker Aldymor, I'd have to agree with heretic. I'm not familiar with the Iga clan, but the koga clan was truly only espionage and if push came to shove guerrilla warfare. <snip> And oh, what's this about a new ninja class in Dragon magazine? Yeah that's fine, I'm talking about Tokugawa ninjas, which I guess historically are the uh.. I guess I'd like to call them "staple" ninjas but that's my own term for mainstream, run-of-the-mill or standard. Tokugawa was big into them and utilized them pretty often as assassins. I'm not uber-familiar with any little pockets of ninja clans so much as their general role in military history. Have you read Secrets of the Samurai? It really isn't that much about Samurai at all, it's about Sengoku Jidai (warring states period, when Samurai were at war with feudal clans after the Ashikaga shogunate fell and various Toujo were up to inherit the nation.) There are a few chapters dedicated to Samurai but seriously I just read this a couple weeks ago and it mostly talks about medieval Japanese warfare in general. They just used a clever name to sell more copies. And I really want to know which issue of dragon has the ninja in it. Ninja are sort of like Jedi to me.. the reason I don't like d20 Star Wars that much is that they try to balance Jedi into the rest of the classes. But really, the trade federation officials wouldn't have shuddered if just two soldiers or nobles were in their fleet. Two Jedi scared the pants off them. It really doesn't sound like there should be a balance with Jedi based on level, and the same could go for ninja. Both go through harsh lengths of training and are dispatched to do some pretty outlandish stuff. Back to the topic... Thank you flying moose for finding another alternative to "Bardarian." Good god that name annoyed me. I know the designers weren't being too serious but yeesh. Dwarven Defender/Cleric - Einherjar Blackguard/Necromancer - Reaper Shadowdancer/Necromancer - Shadowblade |
| heretic88802-23-04, 02:28 PM | I continued the "ninja discussion" here: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=187827 Enjoy. |
| Dragos02-23-04, 08:50 PM | Now some tricky ones (adequate names anyone?): Hexblade/Bard = ? Healer/Warmage= ? Hexblade/Bard = Cursed Melody Healer/Warmage = Battlefield Medic sorry to digress but anyone given any thought to the proper way to splice a savage species progression with a class? |
| strenoth02-23-04, 09:06 PM | any ideas for a hexblade/battle sorcerer? |
| Ulden Throatbane02-23-04, 10:32 PM | Samurai/Swashbuckler = Iajetsu Master Druid/Hexblade = Witch Docter Fighter/Samurai = Bushi |
| Magnificate02-24-04, 03:04 AM | Originally posted by strenoth any ideas for a hexblade/battle sorcerer? Vile Spellswing Marshal/Urban Druid = ? Marshal/Rogue=? Hexblade/Bard = Cursed Melody Healer/Warmage= Battlefield Medic Favoured Soul/Warmage= ? Aristocrat/Barbarian = ? Swashbuckler/Diviner = ? Urban Ranger/Barbarian =? Marshall/Psion = ? Anarchist*/Marshall = ? and some new ones: Swasbuckler/Barbarian = ? Samurai/Wilder = ? Conjurer/Rogue = ? Ranger/Urban Ranger = ? Hexblade/Healer = ? |
| Szatany02-24-04, 03:49 AM | Marshal/Urban Druid = Street Herdsman Favoured Soul/Warmage= Blessed Mayhem Aristocrat/Barbarian = Tribal Lord Swashbuckler/Diviner = Daring Eye Urban Ranger/Barbarian = Savage Investigator Marshall/Psion = Mindcommander Anarchist*/Marshall = Riot Raiser Samurai/Wilder = Warpsword Conjurer/Rogue = Con-Jurer Ranger/Urban Ranger = Master Ranger Hexblade/Healer = Cursemonger Barbarian/Wizard = Hedge Wizard |
| AerynSun03-09-04, 08:36 PM | I revived this thread (unwittingly) with my own list of character names. Many of them overlap, but I included psions and nobles. I'm still looking to fill in a few, and I'm not really concerned with prestige classes. Go here. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2807604#post2807604) |
| Erik_Steel03-09-04, 11:37 PM | Barbarian/Urban Ranger= Bouncer Rogue/Expert= Skill master Monk/Gladiator(prc)= Pro Wrestler |
| Magnificate03-10-04, 01:15 AM | Szatany jesteś naprawdę niezły. Marshal/Urban Druid = Street Herdsman Marshal/Rogue= ? Hexblade/Bard = Cursed Melody Healer/Warmage= Battlefield Medic Favoured Soul/Warmage= Blessed Mayhem Aristocrat/Barbarian = Tribal Lord Swashbuckler/Diviner = Daring Eye Urban Ranger/Barbarian =Savage Investigator Marshall/Psion = MindCommander Anarchist*/Marshall = Riot Raiser (I especially like this one ;)) Swasbuckler/Barbarian = ? Samurai/Wilder = Warpsword Conjurer/Rogue = Con-Jurer Ranger/Urban Ranger = Master Ranger Hexblade/Healer = Cursemonger and even more: Druid/Samurai = ? Rogue/Healer = ? |
| Szatany03-10-04, 02:56 AM | Druid/Samurai = Bonsai Warrior Rogue/Healer = Urban Almsman Barbarian/Swashbuckler = Dancer of Passion Rogue/Expert = Proffesional Swashbuckler/Rogue = Fencer Hexblade/Ranger = Hexplorer Bard/Necromancer = Requiemancer |
| Szatany03-10-04, 11:23 AM | Artificer/Barbarian = Deconstructor Artificer/Bard = Steamsinger Artificer/Cleric = Acolyte of the Gears Artificer/Druid = Nature Engineer Artificer/Fighter = Wired Warrior Artificer/Monk = Pneumatic Fist Artificer/Paladin = Holy Augmentator Artificer/Ranger = Gadget Hunter Artificer/Rogue = Con-structor Artificer/Sorcerer = Lab Born Artificer/Wizard = Scientist Artificer/Abjurer = Defender of Progress Artificer/Conjurer = Translocator Artificer/Diviner = Futurist Artificer/Enchanter = Mind Tinker Artificer/Evoker = Engine of Destruction Artificer/Illusionist = Videomancer Artificer/Necromancer = Animator Artificer/Transmuter = Forge Artificer/Favored One = Chosen of the Machine Artificer/Marshal = Tech Tactician |
| Magnificate03-10-04, 03:57 PM | Marshall/Barbarian = Chieftain Marshall/Bard = Battle Drummer -or- Battle Inspirator Marshall/Cleric = Divine Strategist -or- Chaplain Marshall/Druid = Nature Leader* Marshall/Fighter = Field Commander Marshall/Monk = Granter of Order Marshall/Paladin = The Leading Sword Marshall/Ranger = Guerilla Leader Marshall/Rogue = Tactician Marshall/Sorcerer = Spell Officer Marshall/Wizard = Primemancer Marshall/Samurai = Shogun Marshall/Swashbuckler = ** Marshall/Hexblade = Conflictmonger* Marshall/Favoured Soul = Father of Battle Marshall/Healer = Head Medic* Marshall/Warmage = Master Devastator Marshall/Abjurer = Arcane Defensor Marshall/Conjurer = Auxiliaries Commander -or- "One-man-army" Marshall/Diviner = War Plannist Marshall/Enchanter = Propaganda Dealer Marshall/Evoker = Arcane Aggresor* Marshall/Illusionist = Stealth Subcommander Marshall/Necromancer = Undead General* Marshall/Transmuter = Head TheuEngineer *I'm not entirely satisfied with these **need a really good one here: not just plain Masterfencer P.S. English is not my native language. so if you notice some "funny words" let me know by PM. |
| LexTalinis03-10-04, 04:41 PM | Paladin/Cleric : Inquisition...so instead of the Spanish inquisition do we have the Palorian Inquisition? :smirk: |
| Amator03-11-04, 09:19 AM | Favored Soul/Sorceror = Spellslinger? Favored Soul/Paladin = Anointed? Favored Soul/Bard = The Voice of the Divine? |
| CDW2203-11-04, 07:01 PM | Sorc/Warmage = *boom* heh |
| Erik_Steel03-12-04, 02:19 AM | My friend is playing a gestalt Ranger/Psion(nomad) he calls it Forest Strider. |