Post/Author/DateTime	Post
april151978 07-01-04, 09:50 AM	Ok, here is a thought... I just got the UA book the other day, and liked the Gestalt character idea... Now, the question I have is, can one use a PrC and a class that give the same caster level increase, or not... I searched, but most posts are divided on this issue... As an example, could a fighter 10/cleric 10 then also next level go cleric 1/Divine Disciple ?... Also, as a side note, what about the Heirophant class for divine casters?... Can it be combined with cleric level since it doesn't acctually grant actual caster levels (only for caster level, not actual spell casting level)?... Any takers?...
K@los 07-01-04, 01:35 PM	The way the divine disciple build would work would to level up fighter - cleric up 10th level, then you would 'replace' the fighter advancement with Divine disciple. So at 11th level, you would gain the best bits out of both cleric and divine disciple with the execption of the spellcaster level granted by divine disciple as you already get them form the cleric levels and identical class features of the same level dont stack, you only get the one +1 caster level. Gestalt is really useful for prestige classes like heirophant as you gain all there special abilities and your spellcasting levels. As a side note to this, if your planning on being a big caster in gestalt, you either want two seperate type of casting or a casting class and a prestige class that grant benefits to your casting abilites but not actual caster levels (For arcane spell caster see Eunuch Warlord from OA...makes a wizard a bad ass caster!!:D ). This has the added bonus of at epic levels, you gain two sets of bonus feats that are magic orientated. Hope that helps Kal
Larathiel 07-12-04, 07:51 PM	Presently I'm gearing up to DM a campaign for small party of Gestalt characters. While I am playing with veteran players who themselves own copies of UA, I have had a *very* difficult time convincing them that I'm not cheating their characters when it comes to gaining only the better advancement for similar abilities between classes. I've even gone so far as to lay out the fractional save and BAB advancement rules, explaining how they only get the better of the two advancements, not their sum. (i.e. so that a 10th level Fighter 10/ cleric 10 has a BAB of +10 rather than +17). Unfortunately, at one point during character creation, I wasn't thinking and informed the player of character with 10 levels in Cleric and 4 levels in a Divine Prestige Class granting +1 level of divine spellcasting at every odd level that the Prc improves their cleric casting level also. (Meaning that at 10th level, they would be casting 6th level spells.) It wasn't until later in the week when I was creating an NPC for the adventure with a similar Gestalt advancement that I realized my error: my 11th level NPC: Wizard 11/ Gestalt: Rogue 5 + Red Wizard 6 would be casting capable of casting 9th level spells! :rolleyes: When I informed the player of my mistake, they were very upset because otherwise they would not have chosen that combination of classes. After all, at least additional levels in fighter would have at least granted more feats instead of nerfing 1/2 the abilities of the Prc they did pick. Additionally, if a character was so dedicated to their deity why would they receive no benefit at all from such exemplary service? After thinking about this matter all day while at work, I agree that there should be some compensation for those lost class benefits but I'm undecided as to what form they should take. Under no circumstances can I simply allow their maximum spell level/ spells per day to advance faster than a pure caster class (how could a module designer hope to make a suitable adventure for a given level range if there's no way to tell if the max spell level of the PCs is 5th level or 9th?). Also, simply stating that their caster level checks vs. Spell Resistance is all that improves seems both weak and prone to breaking the game in other ways. I've considered granting bonus feats selectable from the Divine and Metamagic categories at each odd level (levels where they would have previously gained +1 level of spell casting) but I'm concerned that is a bit too much. Any suggestions?
april151978 07-12-04, 10:17 PM	My understanding as it is now is that in no way can any combination of classes and PrCs grant a higher caster level then your HD... Only exception would be a feat from the complete Divine that grants an effective level... But what I don't understand would be say a cleric 20/Fighter 15 (Gestalt) that took Hieripahnt for instead of fighter levels for the last 5 levels, would they still only have a caster level of 20, or would it be 20 +5 effective levels, totalling 25 for effective caster level (Beating SR and such)?...
Greyman 07-13-04, 05:18 AM	When two classes in a gestalt share the same feature they do not stack, you simply use the one which has the better progression. Caster level is a common feature to cleric and hierophant (in this case), even if actual spells slots is not, so it does not stack. However, you get all the spells of a 20th level cleric, as well as 5 special abilities from Hierophant. It would be a slightly different case if you were to use Cleric-20:[Druid-15:Hierophant-5] instead, as the caster level from Hierophant would then add to that of Druid (though druid spells per day would as for level 15), since druid and hierophant levels are sequential in that build, not gestalted. In full, a Cleric-20:[Fighter-15/Hierophant-5] would have a caster level of 20 (15 from the Cleric:Fighter levels and 5 from the Cleric:Hierophant levels), 5 hierophant special abilities, the full progression for cleric spells per day, a turning level of 20, 2 domains (also using a class level of 20 for any dependant features), 8 bonus fighter feats, a BAB of +17, and the bases save bonuses are: +13 Fortitude, +6 Reflex, and +12 Will. That's a fairly decent package.