Gestalt Suggestions [Archive] - Wizards Community

Gestalt Suggestions [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Neopopulas
11-05-05, 05:57 PM After a little looking i am still a little iffy on gestalt, and as i am soon to be able to join such a game i thought i would come here for suggestions, being - i believe - the place to discuss the rules for it.

If i understand correctly, you take the best of both classes as you level up. My first thought was to go Monk/Fighter. With all the monks Special Abilities, saves and AC bonuses combined with the Fighters full BAB and slew of feats, once would think its the best option. However, i'm not sure if this is correct, as it seems so basic that i feel i must me missing something

If anyone has any suggestions, especially monk/something suggestions, i would love to hear them. My other thought was of course Monk/Cleric, as many of their stats sync.
Elgonn
11-05-05, 06:15 PM You don't appear to be missing anything.

I'd suggest making certain that you have at least one side of your character based on spellcasting. Otherwise you are just going to be behind the curve. Also when considering combinations of classes remember that even though you could have twice as many spells/abilities your still limited in your actions per round. So try to get as many passive effects as possible. Sorc/Favored Soul might have an amazing amount of spell but if you can't even cast them all in a day they really weren't helpful. This is also the reason to have at least one spell casting class. When you gestalt melee classes you are having to take the best of each thing and for melee classes this is less likely to be special abilities but HD, BAB, etc. You won't gain as much if both sides are offering near the same benefit.
MJ the Prophet
11-05-05, 07:24 PM The ideas are endless, particularly when you add in the additional classes from the Complete books, the Miniatures handbook, and even the Artificer from Eberron.
While keeping one side of the gestalt as a caster is a good idea, there are many non-caster builds that work. Your monk/fighter is actually one of them, as the fighter's benefits (high HD, best BAB, bonus combat feats) cover the major weaknesses of the monk. Similarly, the fighter/psychic warrior is a surprisingly good combo; the major weakness of the psy-warrior is his lack of BAB. Combine the two, and watch your feats go through the roof! A 1st-level human fighter/psychic warrior would have 4 feats, gain another at 2nd, two more at 3rd, another at 4th, and so on, with the option to take WS, GWF, and GWS!
That said, spellcasting classes can help, but only if they synergize. That is the key to a good gestalt build; synergy. If you're a fighter/warmage, you've got a lot of versatility, as you can move in close or blast from far away. However, you can only do one at a time, and you're not taking advantage of your skills if you have to split up your feat selection, skill choices, equipment, etc.
A surprisingly good choice to go alongside anything is warlock. It's invocations can synergize with just about any class, and they're usable as often as you want.
One of the best places for you to look will be here. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=499242) Look at the builds, ask questions, and the CO experts will get you a great character in no time!
LiamDeclan
11-05-05, 09:20 PM Can you take lets say Warlock as the side A of B for the Gestalt option from Un.Arcana and then take side B for several different classes? I think you can but I don't know how to do his Saves and BAB for it. Do I just use the Warlock for everything past the 3rd level? Except for Hit dice and skill points, which is always going to be the best out of the rest of the classes.

Warlock/Rogue 1st level = 1st level character
Warlock/Rogue 2nd level
Warlock/Rogue 3rd level
Warlock/Hexblade 4th for Warlock 1st for Hexblade = 4th level character
Warlock/Hexblade 5th for Warlock 2nd for Hexblade = 5th level character
Warlock/Alcolyte of the Skin 6th for Warlock 1st for Alcolyte = 6th character level
Warlock/Alcolyte of the Skin 7th for Warlock 2nd for Alcolyte = 7th characer level
3doorsfan
11-05-05, 09:56 PM how about a gestalt monk/dread necromancer?

unarmed damage up the wazoo combined with charnel touch
now that sounds like a killer idea to me :D
Jaxgaret
11-06-05, 01:30 AM Warlock/Blackguard
MJ the Prophet
11-07-05, 12:31 PM Can you take lets say Warlock as the side A of B for the Gestalt option from Un.Arcana and then take side B for several different classes? I think you can but I don't know how to do his Saves and BAB for it. Do I just use the Warlock for everything past the 3rd level? Except for Hit dice and skill points, which is always going to be the best out of the rest of the classes.

Warlock/Rogue 1st level = 1st level character
Warlock/Rogue 2nd level
Warlock/Rogue 3rd level
Warlock/Hexblade 4th for Warlock 1st for Hexblade = 4th level character
Warlock/Hexblade 5th for Warlock 2nd for Hexblade = 5th level character
Warlock/Alcolyte of the Skin 6th for Warlock 1st for Alcolyte = 6th character level
Warlock/Alcolyte of the Skin 7th for Warlock 2nd for Alcolyte = 7th characer level

You can absolutely do what you're looking at there. At each level, you take the best of whatever classes you have, including the HD and skill points as you mentioned. BAB and saves work the same way. For example, the Hexblade gets a good BAB; at levels 4 and 5, your BAB would increase by 1 instead of 3/4 (which is what the warlock gets). Saves work the same as they do with multiclassing; you use whichever gives you the bigger increase. I believe the hexblade gets good Fort and Will saves (I could be wrong). At your first level of hexblade, you then get +2 to those saves, since that's a bigger increase than the warlock gives you at that level. It's a little confusing with gestalt, which is why I prefer to use the fractional BAB and saves presented on the same page as the gestalt variant. At each level, you just add the largest fractions given by your classes to what you currently have. (This also prevents the Ftr1/Src19//Wiz20 build from having full BAB.)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Neopopulas 11-05-05, 05:57 PM	After a little looking i am still a little iffy on gestalt, and as i am soon to be able to join such a game i thought i would come here for suggestions, being - i believe - the place to discuss the rules for it. If i understand correctly, you take the best of both classes as you level up. My first thought was to go Monk/Fighter. With all the monks Special Abilities, saves and AC bonuses combined with the Fighters full BAB and slew of feats, once would think its the best option. However, i'm not sure if this is correct, as it seems so basic that i feel i must me missing something If anyone has any suggestions, especially monk/something suggestions, i would love to hear them. My other thought was of course Monk/Cleric, as many of their stats sync.
Elgonn 11-05-05, 06:15 PM	You don't appear to be missing anything. I'd suggest making certain that you have at least one side of your character based on spellcasting. Otherwise you are just going to be behind the curve. Also when considering combinations of classes remember that even though you could have twice as many spells/abilities your still limited in your actions per round. So try to get as many passive effects as possible. Sorc/Favored Soul might have an amazing amount of spell but if you can't even cast them all in a day they really weren't helpful. This is also the reason to have at least one spell casting class. When you gestalt melee classes you are having to take the best of each thing and for melee classes this is less likely to be special abilities but HD, BAB, etc. You won't gain as much if both sides are offering near the same benefit.
MJ the Prophet 11-05-05, 07:24 PM	The ideas are endless, particularly when you add in the additional classes from the Complete books, the Miniatures handbook, and even the Artificer from Eberron. While keeping one side of the gestalt as a caster is a good idea, there are many non-caster builds that work. Your monk/fighter is actually one of them, as the fighter's benefits (high HD, best BAB, bonus combat feats) cover the major weaknesses of the monk. Similarly, the fighter/psychic warrior is a surprisingly good combo; the major weakness of the psy-warrior is his lack of BAB. Combine the two, and watch your feats go through the roof! A 1st-level human fighter/psychic warrior would have 4 feats, gain another at 2nd, two more at 3rd, another at 4th, and so on, with the option to take WS, GWF, and GWS! That said, spellcasting classes can help, but only if they synergize. That is the key to a good gestalt build; synergy. If you're a fighter/warmage, you've got a lot of versatility, as you can move in close or blast from far away. However, you can only do one at a time, and you're not taking advantage of your skills if you have to split up your feat selection, skill choices, equipment, etc. A surprisingly good choice to go alongside anything is warlock. It's invocations can synergize with just about any class, and they're usable as often as you want. One of the best places for you to look will be here. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=499242) Look at the builds, ask questions, and the CO experts will get you a great character in no time!
LiamDeclan 11-05-05, 09:20 PM	Can you take lets say Warlock as the side A of B for the Gestalt option from Un.Arcana and then take side B for several different classes? I think you can but I don't know how to do his Saves and BAB for it. Do I just use the Warlock for everything past the 3rd level? Except for Hit dice and skill points, which is always going to be the best out of the rest of the classes. Warlock/Rogue 1st level = 1st level character Warlock/Rogue 2nd level Warlock/Rogue 3rd level Warlock/Hexblade 4th for Warlock 1st for Hexblade = 4th level character Warlock/Hexblade 5th for Warlock 2nd for Hexblade = 5th level character Warlock/Alcolyte of the Skin 6th for Warlock 1st for Alcolyte = 6th character level Warlock/Alcolyte of the Skin 7th for Warlock 2nd for Alcolyte = 7th characer level
3doorsfan 11-05-05, 09:56 PM	how about a gestalt monk/dread necromancer? unarmed damage up the wazoo combined with charnel touch now that sounds like a killer idea to me :D
Jaxgaret 11-06-05, 01:30 AM	Warlock/Blackguard
MJ the Prophet 11-07-05, 12:31 PM	Can you take lets say Warlock as the side A of B for the Gestalt option from Un.Arcana and then take side B for several different classes? I think you can but I don't know how to do his Saves and BAB for it. Do I just use the Warlock for everything past the 3rd level? Except for Hit dice and skill points, which is always going to be the best out of the rest of the classes. Warlock/Rogue 1st level = 1st level character Warlock/Rogue 2nd level Warlock/Rogue 3rd level Warlock/Hexblade 4th for Warlock 1st for Hexblade = 4th level character Warlock/Hexblade 5th for Warlock 2nd for Hexblade = 5th level character Warlock/Alcolyte of the Skin 6th for Warlock 1st for Alcolyte = 6th character level Warlock/Alcolyte of the Skin 7th for Warlock 2nd for Alcolyte = 7th characer level You can absolutely do what you're looking at there. At each level, you take the best of whatever classes you have, including the HD and skill points as you mentioned. BAB and saves work the same way. For example, the Hexblade gets a good BAB; at levels 4 and 5, your BAB would increase by 1 instead of 3/4 (which is what the warlock gets). Saves work the same as they do with multiclassing; you use whichever gives you the bigger increase. I believe the hexblade gets good Fort and Will saves (I could be wrong). At your first level of hexblade, you then get +2 to those saves, since that's a bigger increase than the warlock gives you at that level. It's a little confusing with gestalt, which is why I prefer to use the fractional BAB and saves presented on the same page as the gestalt variant. At each level, you just add the largest fractions given by your classes to what you currently have. (This also prevents the Ftr1/Src19//Wiz20 build from having full BAB.)