Gestalt v Leadership [Archive] - Wizards Community

Gestalt v Leadership [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
DracoPhoenix
09-13-07, 07:26 AM I don't know if anyone can help or point me in the right direction of an existing post, but:

What's the relative pros & cons / power between someone with a cohort and a gestalt PC?

I'm thinking of exploring a slightly modified gestalt (ie. 2nd class at -2 Cha Lev, as feat at 6th level) to use it as an alternate to leadership. But I have no idea on how more (or less) powerful it would be compared to leadership.

For example, as gestalt you "lose out" on the 2nd action / round a cohort could provide, so would the -2ChL still be an appropriate penalty?

Or am I asking "apples v oranges, discuss"?

Comments & derive & explains welcome.
Cifer
09-13-07, 11:32 AM It's somewhat apples and oranges. The single character would be hardier against magic since his saving throws would be better overall (against a rogue and a cleric, I attack the cleric with a reflex save and the rogue with a fort; a cleric//rogue would have no weak save at all). On the other hand side, they've got more hit points and the second action per round - especially the latter one is going to matter.
DracoPhoenix
09-13-07, 11:43 AM It's somewhat apples and oranges. The single character would be hardier against magic since his saving throws would be better overall (against a rogue and a cleric, I attack the cleric with a reflex save and the rogue with a fort; a cleric//rogue would have no weak save at all). On the other hand side, they've got more hit points and the second action per round - especially the latter one is going to matter.

Which raises the question, are they at least fruit of comparable weight? :confused:
Corvus_Obscurus
09-13-07, 02:13 PM Introducing that feat makes multi-classing also less appealing to players, as they get more from that feat than from actual multi-classing. Perhaps just give the real class features (no spellcasting, hp, bab, saves, etc) with the feat and you should be fine.
HrothgarRannulfr
09-16-07, 10:29 PM I'm thinking of exploring a slightly modified gestalt (ie. 2nd class at -2 Cha Lev, as feat at 6th level) to use it as an alternate to leadership. But I have no idea on how more (or less) powerful it would be compared to leadership.Interesting idea.

I'm currently DMing a campaign with two groups of characters who are between 2nd and 5th level. I was thinking of converting them all to full gestalts at 6th level. That feat provides an interesting alternative.

Overall, I'd say that it's less powerful than leadership. But, I'm not confident that it's fair for a feat, either. It seems too powerful because it comes with a whole slew of options each of which could be considered a feat in their own right.

Consider a sixth level cleric that takes the Gestalt feat and adds 4 levels of fighter. A fort save boost and three fighter bonus feats. And, on top of that, he converts 4 of his 6 hit dice from d8's to d10's.

In short, I wouldn't allow the Gestalt feat in my game. I'd just play with all gestalts (which I really want to try in the future... which is why I'm considering converting all the PC's to gestalts in the very near future).
cooperflood
09-18-07, 10:06 PM If I were you I would just give all your players the modified Gestalt option for free. Calling it a "feat" is kind of silly, because it is way more powerfull than any feat and all your players should take the feat if it is offered anyway. This keeps them from asking about it in other campains, I get tired of my players always asking about Leadership.

Personally I like the option better than Leadership. It keeps the bookkeeping down and it helps speed up combat. Finally by giving the characters more abilities it gives them more chances to shine.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DracoPhoenix 09-13-07, 07:26 AM	I don't know if anyone can help or point me in the right direction of an existing post, but: What's the relative pros & cons / power between someone with a cohort and a gestalt PC? I'm thinking of exploring a slightly modified gestalt (ie. 2nd class at -2 Cha Lev, as feat at 6th level) to use it as an alternate to leadership. But I have no idea on how more (or less) powerful it would be compared to leadership. For example, as gestalt you "lose out" on the 2nd action / round a cohort could provide, so would the -2ChL still be an appropriate penalty? Or am I asking "apples v oranges, discuss"? Comments & derive & explains welcome.
Cifer 09-13-07, 11:32 AM	It's somewhat apples and oranges. The single character would be hardier against magic since his saving throws would be better overall (against a rogue and a cleric, I attack the cleric with a reflex save and the rogue with a fort; a cleric//rogue would have no weak save at all). On the other hand side, they've got more hit points and the second action per round - especially the latter one is going to matter.
DracoPhoenix 09-13-07, 11:43 AM	It's somewhat apples and oranges. The single character would be hardier against magic since his saving throws would be better overall (against a rogue and a cleric, I attack the cleric with a reflex save and the rogue with a fort; a cleric//rogue would have no weak save at all). On the other hand side, they've got more hit points and the second action per round - especially the latter one is going to matter. Which raises the question, are they at least fruit of comparable weight? :confused:
Corvus_Obscurus 09-13-07, 02:13 PM	Introducing that feat makes multi-classing also less appealing to players, as they get more from that feat than from actual multi-classing. Perhaps just give the real class features (no spellcasting, hp, bab, saves, etc) with the feat and you should be fine.
HrothgarRannulfr 09-16-07, 10:29 PM	I'm thinking of exploring a slightly modified gestalt (ie. 2nd class at -2 Cha Lev, as feat at 6th level) to use it as an alternate to leadership. But I have no idea on how more (or less) powerful it would be compared to leadership.Interesting idea. I'm currently DMing a campaign with two groups of characters who are between 2nd and 5th level. I was thinking of converting them all to full gestalts at 6th level. That feat provides an interesting alternative. Overall, I'd say that it's less powerful than leadership. But, I'm not confident that it's fair for a feat, either. It seems too powerful because it comes with a whole slew of options each of which could be considered a feat in their own right. Consider a sixth level cleric that takes the Gestalt feat and adds 4 levels of fighter. A fort save boost and three fighter bonus feats. And, on top of that, he converts 4 of his 6 hit dice from d8's to d10's. In short, I wouldn't allow the Gestalt feat in my game. I'd just play with all gestalts (which I really want to try in the future... which is why I'm considering converting all the PC's to gestalts in the very near future).
cooperflood 09-18-07, 10:06 PM	If I were you I would just give all your players the modified Gestalt option for free. Calling it a "feat" is kind of silly, because it is way more powerfull than any feat and all your players should take the feat if it is offered anyway. This keeps them from asking about it in other campains, I get tired of my players always asking about Leadership. Personally I like the option better than Leadership. It keeps the bookkeeping down and it helps speed up combat. Finally by giving the characters more abilities it gives them more chances to shine.