Gestalt variations [Archive] - Wizards Community

Gestalt variations [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Golem1972
09-07-04, 05:42 AM We've been working on a gestalt campaign for a couple of months now. Not everyone wanted to use a gestalt character so we let some use straight characters, and some use gestalt with a +1 LA. It seems to work out ok for the moment.

I have been wondering though. Since gestalt characters are pretty much equivilant to 2e multiclassing, has anyone tried using 3 class gestalts? I.E. 2es Fighter/Mage/Thief, or Fighter/Mage/Cleric.

If we went this route, we'd probably stick with the one class must be without PrC, and up it to a +2 LA.
Kiri Sittori
09-07-04, 10:53 AM We've been working on a gestalt campaign for a couple of months now. Not everyone wanted to use a gestalt character so we let some use straight characters, and some use gestalt with a +1 LA. It seems to work out ok for the moment.

I have been wondering though. Since gestalt characters are pretty much equivilant to 2e multiclassing, has anyone tried using 3 class gestalts? I.E. 2es Fighter/Mage/Thief, or Fighter/Mage/Cleric.

If we went this route, we'd probably stick with the one class must be without PrC, and up it to a +2 LA.

Hmm... interesting.

I did have one idea for a slight nerf to the gestalt, that would bring it more to the power level of the single-classes. Just use average, instead of better-progression, for HD (and possibly even for base saves... though the average HD was more flavourful for the 2e comparison.)

In other words: A gestalt Fighter/Thief would have (d10+d6)/2, +Con bonus, per level, instead of straight d10+Con.
Drizzt Clone
09-07-04, 09:42 PM IMC, a character can choose either to take the base HD, BAB, and saves of a single class or average those of both classes together (If an above average feature and an average one were combined the average one would result). If one of the character's favored classes was included in the combination, the favored class could be averaged into the other class without decreasing attributes, only increasing them, or vice versa. Ex: A dwarf takes levels in fighter/cleric. He may choose fighter as the dominant class, resulting in d10 hd, good BAB, good fort saves and average will saves, or he may choose cleric as the dominant class, resulting in d8 hd, medium BAB, good fort saves and good will saves. [end example] Each race has 3 favored classes one of which is undefined, except for humans, who have 3 of their choice that they don't have to difine until applicable. Half-humans and planetouched have 1 predifined class and two undefined ones. Core Races:
Human-3 undifined
Dwarf-Fighter, Artificer, 1 undefined
Elf-Sorcerer (BlaineTog's Composite Sorcerer, elves can take Arcane Preparation as a sorcerer bonus feat IMC), Druid, 1 undefined
Gnome-Wizard, Artificer, 1 undefined
Half-Elf-Bard, 2 undefined
Half-Orc-Barbarian, 2 undefined
Halfling-Rogue, Bard, 1 undefined
Undefined classes can be chosen at any point in character advancement (even at character creation), but they do not award retroactive benefits in cases which a character takes several (or one) levels in a character class before defining it as a favored class. Once difined, they cannot be changed.
Zorachus
09-08-04, 01:45 PM Well, I allow two other options for Gestalt in my campaign.

A character may select 3 base classes instead of two, but then may NEVER take a prestige class in any of them. This seems to balance, as prestige classes confer a lot of power (especially for characters who take them in series).

A 2 class gestalt may take even prohibited prestige classes such as arcane trickster, eldritch knight, etc., but then not only must the character qualify for it with only one track, but the character then only gets the greater of caster levels from each track for that caster/manifester type.

For example, look at the following progression:

Track 1 - Rogue 5, Wizard 5, Arcane Trickster 10
Track 2 - Wizard 5, Rogue 15

The character in question would have a caster level of 15 in Wizard, NOT 20, as only the highest track counted. Similarly, the character could not do Rogue 10, Arcane Trickster 10 in Track 1, using the Wizard levels from Track 2 to qualify. Generally speaking, people don't want to bother.
philopharynx
09-08-04, 08:55 PM I think Gestalt classes add more than just +1 LA to a character. I was thinking recently about how to mix gestalt and non-gestalt classes recently and came up with a good idea.

Gestalt levels take twice the xp as regular levels. This means the effective LA will go up as they do, understandable given the number of class benefits they get. At 6,000 xp a standard character will be 4th level, where a gestalt character will be 3rd level. When a stadard character hits 14th, the gestalt character will be a little over 10th.

I also note the standardized level - the level of a character with the same xp if they took normal classes. This is used to calculate XP and for starting cash.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Golem1972 09-07-04, 05:42 AM	We've been working on a gestalt campaign for a couple of months now. Not everyone wanted to use a gestalt character so we let some use straight characters, and some use gestalt with a +1 LA. It seems to work out ok for the moment. I have been wondering though. Since gestalt characters are pretty much equivilant to 2e multiclassing, has anyone tried using 3 class gestalts? I.E. 2es Fighter/Mage/Thief, or Fighter/Mage/Cleric. If we went this route, we'd probably stick with the one class must be without PrC, and up it to a +2 LA.
Kiri Sittori 09-07-04, 10:53 AM	We've been working on a gestalt campaign for a couple of months now. Not everyone wanted to use a gestalt character so we let some use straight characters, and some use gestalt with a +1 LA. It seems to work out ok for the moment. I have been wondering though. Since gestalt characters are pretty much equivilant to 2e multiclassing, has anyone tried using 3 class gestalts? I.E. 2es Fighter/Mage/Thief, or Fighter/Mage/Cleric. If we went this route, we'd probably stick with the one class must be without PrC, and up it to a +2 LA. Hmm... interesting. I did have one idea for a slight nerf to the gestalt, that would bring it more to the power level of the single-classes. Just use average, instead of better-progression, for HD (and possibly even for base saves... though the average HD was more flavourful for the 2e comparison.) In other words: A gestalt Fighter/Thief would have (d10+d6)/2, +Con bonus, per level, instead of straight d10+Con.
Drizzt Clone 09-07-04, 09:42 PM	IMC, a character can choose either to take the base HD, BAB, and saves of a single class or average those of both classes together (If an above average feature and an average one were combined the average one would result). If one of the character's favored classes was included in the combination, the favored class could be averaged into the other class without decreasing attributes, only increasing them, or vice versa. Ex: A dwarf takes levels in fighter/cleric. He may choose fighter as the dominant class, resulting in d10 hd, good BAB, good fort saves and average will saves, or he may choose cleric as the dominant class, resulting in d8 hd, medium BAB, good fort saves and good will saves. [end example] Each race has 3 favored classes one of which is undefined, except for humans, who have 3 of their choice that they don't have to difine until applicable. Half-humans and planetouched have 1 predifined class and two undefined ones. Core Races: Human-3 undifined Dwarf-Fighter, Artificer, 1 undefined Elf-Sorcerer (BlaineTog's Composite Sorcerer, elves can take Arcane Preparation as a sorcerer bonus feat IMC), Druid, 1 undefined Gnome-Wizard, Artificer, 1 undefined Half-Elf-Bard, 2 undefined Half-Orc-Barbarian, 2 undefined Halfling-Rogue, Bard, 1 undefined Undefined classes can be chosen at any point in character advancement (even at character creation), but they do not award retroactive benefits in cases which a character takes several (or one) levels in a character class before defining it as a favored class. Once difined, they cannot be changed.
Zorachus 09-08-04, 01:45 PM	Well, I allow two other options for Gestalt in my campaign. A character may select 3 base classes instead of two, but then may NEVER take a prestige class in any of them. This seems to balance, as prestige classes confer a lot of power (especially for characters who take them in series). A 2 class gestalt may take even prohibited prestige classes such as arcane trickster, eldritch knight, etc., but then not only must the character qualify for it with only one track, but the character then only gets the greater of caster levels from each track for that caster/manifester type. For example, look at the following progression: Track 1 - Rogue 5, Wizard 5, Arcane Trickster 10 Track 2 - Wizard 5, Rogue 15 The character in question would have a caster level of 15 in Wizard, NOT 20, as only the highest track counted. Similarly, the character could not do Rogue 10, Arcane Trickster 10 in Track 1, using the Wizard levels from Track 2 to qualify. Generally speaking, people don't want to bother.
philopharynx 09-08-04, 08:55 PM	I think Gestalt classes add more than just +1 LA to a character. I was thinking recently about how to mix gestalt and non-gestalt classes recently and came up with a good idea. Gestalt levels take twice the xp as regular levels. This means the effective LA will go up as they do, understandable given the number of class benefits they get. At 6,000 xp a standard character will be 4th level, where a gestalt character will be 3rd level. When a stadard character hits 14th, the gestalt character will be a little over 10th. I also note the standardized level - the level of a character with the same xp if they took normal classes. This is used to calculate XP and for starting cash.