Gestalt Verification [Archive] - Wizards Community

Gestalt Verification [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Elerion
07-03-04, 06:57 AM I was just needing help with a Gestalt character. I just need verification if this build is correct. This is more for a role-playing concept than a powergaming concept.

Thanks in advance.

Air Gensai
Side 1 of Gestalt - Sorcerer 20
Side 2 of Gestalt - Air Gensai 1 / Bard 9 / Elemental Savant 10

My question is this... Elemental Savant gives a +1 caster level to a previous spell casting class. Would it be feasible to add that +1 caster level to the Bard?

Thanks again and let me know if there you have any questions.

Elerion
Nifft
07-03-04, 07:35 AM Seems fine to me.

However, Bards are better than Sorcerers in every respect except spellcasting, so I'd do it this way:

Sorc 10 -> Elemental Savant 10 // Air Genasi 1 -> Bard 19

Lots more Bard Songs and Bardic Knowlege, which are both cool.

-- N
Kastas
07-04-04, 04:21 AM Good advice, Nifft.

To answer your other question, yes you could add your spellcasting levels to your bard class... but why would you want to when you have sorcerer levels available?
Elerion
07-04-04, 12:11 PM Thanks for the advice Nifft, I may have to reconsider my options there. :)

Kastas:
I was under the impression that if you had two classes that added spellcasting levels they both increased. Hence I can't use the spellcasting level from Elemental Savant to increase Sorcerer since I'm already increasing Sorcerrer, so I figured i'd see if I can use it to increase Bard.

Me personally I'm pretty set on Sorcerer 20. Only reason I'm taking Bard is because I need 8 ranks of Knowledge (the Planes) and was trying to find a way around taking the Education feat.

I do appreciate the help and advice.
Nifft
07-04-04, 12:54 PM The extra Bard spells will help you out -- Sorcerers are rather limited in their spell selection -- and having a good Reflex save is both sweet and fits the whole Air-theme. Songs and [Sonic] powers seem Air-themed to me, too. You'll get Sorcerer20 either way, but one way is simply more powerful.

Bards do great in skill points, so I might even take Bard at 1st level instead of Sorcerer (for 4x6+Int instead of 4x2+Int). Bard BAB is better, Bard HD is better -- everything except spellcasting is better.

Also, I'd ask to use LA Buyoff instead of sacrificing a level and never getting it back. Genasi in general are cool but not all that powerful -- compared to, say, Aasimar. (That rule is early in UA, on page 19 or so I think.)

Now, for True Ultimate Power(tm), you should go like this:

1: Sorc 3 + LA Buyoff -> Sorc 4 -> Elemental Savant 10 -> Archmage 3
2: Bard 3 + LA Buyoff -> Bard 17

You'll be able to heal quite effectively, and on those rare occasions when direct spellcasting won't work (e.g.: when facing a mountain of Golems), you can buff your party using Bard spells and Bard songs.

Bards also have some specific spells that no-one else ever gets, including Glibness and Modify Memory. Take them! Be your party's "Face" character! Boost your Bluff and Diplomacy and make everyone your minion -- er, I mean, good friend. Otherwise, how are you ever going to get a Djinn to listen to you, let alone to follow your council?

-- N
Senko
07-06-04, 07:08 AM I don't have the book to reference but I thought from what I saw when I borried it off a friend that you couldn't take multiple classes as 1 part of a gestalt. That it would be sorcerer 20/fighter 20 or sorcer 12/monk 12 or maybe sorcerer 20/shifter 10 not sorcerer 20/fighter 10,shifter 5, monk 5. Am I wrong in this or is that the result of a house rule?
Camellan
07-06-04, 08:44 AM Originally posted by Elerion
I was just needing help with a Gestalt character. I just need verification if this build is correct. This is more for a role-playing concept than a powergaming concept.

Thanks in advance.

Air Gensai
Side 1 of Gestalt - Sorcerer 20
Side 2 of Gestalt - Air Gensai 1 / Bard 9 / Elemental Savant 10

My question is this... Elemental Savant gives a +1 caster level to a previous spell casting class. Would it be feasible to add that +1 caster level to the Bard?

Thanks again and let me know if there you have any questions.

Elerion

From the way we've played it, yes. You're already getting one caster level for the sorcerer side each level from the Sorcerer, so the only place to put the Elemental Savant Spellcasting is on the Bard side.

Sounds like a neat Character Concept.

Senko,

there's nothing officially against it, but it seems to be a pretty common house rule. Keeps things simpler, but perhaps not as cool.
Senko
07-06-04, 09:38 AM Ah thanks.
Nifft
07-07-04, 09:46 PM Senko: Gestalt explicitly forbids some Prestige Classes. Under your rules, they'd have to forbid all Prestige classes, since you can't start with most of them. :)

-- N
Senko
07-07-04, 09:52 PM I thought it only forbid taking two prestige classes as a gestalt? As for stopping all of them whats to stop someone gonig gestalt monk/sorcerer until 11th level then taking levels in a prestige class like you normally do? Or even gestalt Dragon disciple/warrior?
the Horc
07-07-04, 11:13 PM Originally posted by Nifft
You'll be able to heal quite effectively, and on those rare occasions when direct spellcasting won't work (e.g.: when facing a mountain of Golems),

Fah! That is why you spam Reverse Gravities!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Elerion 07-03-04, 06:57 AM	I was just needing help with a Gestalt character. I just need verification if this build is correct. This is more for a role-playing concept than a powergaming concept. Thanks in advance. Air Gensai Side 1 of Gestalt - Sorcerer 20 Side 2 of Gestalt - Air Gensai 1 / Bard 9 / Elemental Savant 10 My question is this... Elemental Savant gives a +1 caster level to a previous spell casting class. Would it be feasible to add that +1 caster level to the Bard? Thanks again and let me know if there you have any questions. Elerion
Nifft 07-03-04, 07:35 AM	Seems fine to me. However, Bards are better than Sorcerers in every respect except spellcasting, so I'd do it this way: Sorc 10 -> Elemental Savant 10 // Air Genasi 1 -> Bard 19 Lots more Bard Songs and Bardic Knowlege, which are both cool. -- N
Kastas 07-04-04, 04:21 AM	Good advice, Nifft. To answer your other question, yes you could add your spellcasting levels to your bard class... but why would you want to when you have sorcerer levels available?
Elerion 07-04-04, 12:11 PM	Thanks for the advice Nifft, I may have to reconsider my options there. :) Kastas: I was under the impression that if you had two classes that added spellcasting levels they both increased. Hence I can't use the spellcasting level from Elemental Savant to increase Sorcerer since I'm already increasing Sorcerrer, so I figured i'd see if I can use it to increase Bard. Me personally I'm pretty set on Sorcerer 20. Only reason I'm taking Bard is because I need 8 ranks of Knowledge (the Planes) and was trying to find a way around taking the Education feat. I do appreciate the help and advice.
Nifft 07-04-04, 12:54 PM	The extra Bard spells will help you out -- Sorcerers are rather limited in their spell selection -- and having a good Reflex save is both sweet and fits the whole Air-theme. Songs and [Sonic] powers seem Air-themed to me, too. You'll get Sorcerer20 either way, but one way is simply more powerful. Bards do great in skill points, so I might even take Bard at 1st level instead of Sorcerer (for 4x6+Int instead of 4x2+Int). Bard BAB is better, Bard HD is better -- everything except spellcasting is better. Also, I'd ask to use LA Buyoff instead of sacrificing a level and never getting it back. Genasi in general are cool but not all that powerful -- compared to, say, Aasimar. (That rule is early in UA, on page 19 or so I think.) Now, for True Ultimate Power(tm), you should go like this: 1: Sorc 3 + LA Buyoff -> Sorc 4 -> Elemental Savant 10 -> Archmage 3 2: Bard 3 + LA Buyoff -> Bard 17 You'll be able to heal quite effectively, and on those rare occasions when direct spellcasting won't work (e.g.: when facing a mountain of Golems), you can buff your party using Bard spells and Bard songs. Bards also have some specific spells that no-one else ever gets, including Glibness and Modify Memory. Take them! Be your party's "Face" character! Boost your Bluff and Diplomacy and make everyone your minion -- er, I mean, good friend. Otherwise, how are you ever going to get a Djinn to listen to you, let alone to follow your council? -- N
Senko 07-06-04, 07:08 AM	I don't have the book to reference but I thought from what I saw when I borried it off a friend that you couldn't take multiple classes as 1 part of a gestalt. That it would be sorcerer 20/fighter 20 or sorcer 12/monk 12 or maybe sorcerer 20/shifter 10 not sorcerer 20/fighter 10,shifter 5, monk 5. Am I wrong in this or is that the result of a house rule?
Camellan 07-06-04, 08:44 AM	Originally posted by Elerion I was just needing help with a Gestalt character. I just need verification if this build is correct. This is more for a role-playing concept than a powergaming concept. Thanks in advance. Air Gensai Side 1 of Gestalt - Sorcerer 20 Side 2 of Gestalt - Air Gensai 1 / Bard 9 / Elemental Savant 10 My question is this... Elemental Savant gives a +1 caster level to a previous spell casting class. Would it be feasible to add that +1 caster level to the Bard? Thanks again and let me know if there you have any questions. Elerion From the way we've played it, yes. You're already getting one caster level for the sorcerer side each level from the Sorcerer, so the only place to put the Elemental Savant Spellcasting is on the Bard side. Sounds like a neat Character Concept. Senko, there's nothing officially against it, but it seems to be a pretty common house rule. Keeps things simpler, but perhaps not as cool.
Senko 07-06-04, 09:38 AM	Ah thanks.
Nifft 07-07-04, 09:46 PM	Senko: Gestalt explicitly forbids some Prestige Classes. Under your rules, they'd have to forbid all Prestige classes, since you can't start with most of them. :) -- N
Senko 07-07-04, 09:52 PM	I thought it only forbid taking two prestige classes as a gestalt? As for stopping all of them whats to stop someone gonig gestalt monk/sorcerer until 11th level then taking levels in a prestige class like you normally do? Or even gestalt Dragon disciple/warrior?
the Horc 07-07-04, 11:13 PM	Originally posted by Nifft You'll be able to heal quite effectively, and on those rare occasions when direct spellcasting won't work (e.g.: when facing a mountain of Golems), Fah! That is why you spam Reverse Gravities!