Post/Author/DateTime	Post
willpower2050 06-08-06, 12:57 PM	I have been playing in a gestalt game, I am going to make a new character for. I thought of playing a wizard/sorceror, so I can cast spontaneously, as well as from memorization. Then I remembered how with gestalts bonuses aren't completely stackable if similar. IE a fighter/ranger doesn't get 2 BAB points per level, and likewise two classes that get sneak attack, don't get all the dice added together, but ratherthey go up and the highest progression. That being the case, (even if for some reason you disagree with that summation) how would you figure what spells a Wizard/Sorceror would get? Would he get both spells known, and spells per day from both classes? That seems to go against the way it usually works for two classes that have the same abilities. A.
Rickiel 06-08-06, 01:57 PM	Think of it as if you were gestalting a cleric/wizard, two sets of spells known/spells per day. You get two different DC's to use. Your familiar is happy in any case. You get bonus feats from the wizard bit. It MAY seem like stacking at first, but since it isn't, it should be all green to go! In short: Enjoy your arcanist who will make people fly and go boom! :)
Mandarbgrim 06-08-06, 01:59 PM	They get spells from both seperately. I am pretty sure it mentions such specifically with the Gestault section in Unearthed Arcana. I wouldn't suggest going that route myself, and would try to pick two classes that give more of a variety of abilities, or that have abilities that synergize well together. <Example being Rogue and Wizard, in which you could use Spells to Sneak Attack.> Sorceror and Wizard gives you a massive number of arcane spells per day, but no other advantage.
00_Whupass 06-08-06, 02:04 PM	I'm not sure your correct in all your assumptions. Yes, for things like BAB, HD and saves you only take the better value of the two classes, however in the case of class features you get the features of both classes. Therefore when gestalting Sorcerer//Wizard you get two separate casting pools, one from wizard, which must be prepared from the choices available in your spellbook, and one from sorcerer, which are cast spontaneously from your spells known list. Of course this is a pretty poor combination to gestalt anyway, since the two classes don't synergize terribly well together. Generally the best use of gestalt is to select classes that have complementary abilties while also allowing one class to cover the weaknesses of another. Like Sorcerer//Paladin they both depend on Cha so there's no need to focus on two stats, the paladins Hit die supplants the frailty of the sorcerer, the paladin supplies a good Fort save, the Sorcerer a good will save, the Paladin's BAB supplants that of the Sorcerer. Compare this to your proposed Wizard//Sorcerer you still have d4 HD, you still have only one good save, you still have poor BAB, all you're really gaining from your second class is extra spells/day. This isn't to say that you shouldn't play what you want and like, but my gut reaction to seeing your plan is why would anyone do that? Also I can only come up with one situation in which a character would simultaneously gain sneak attack from both sides of the gestalt and that would be Rogue\\Spellthief, and yes in that case I believe the rules dictate they would get both.
goawayugh 06-08-06, 02:40 PM	One of my BBEG's is going to be a gestalt Fighter/Warmage. All the fighter bonus feats are going into making the Warmage a ray specialist. Not to mention good BAB and two good saves.
Millennium 06-08-06, 03:34 PM	UA has a section where they describe strategies you can perform with certain Gestalt mixes. By my interpretation of the listing for Sorcerer/Wizard, you track your two spell progressions separately, just as you would for a Sorcerer/Cleric. Sorcerer and Wizard are two different spellcasting progressions that happen to share the same class list. They don't stack, but it's for the same reason that a +2 inherent bonus to STR and a +2 inherent bonus to DEX don't stack: the concept of stacking doesn't apply because they're two different things. In other words, you can only spontaneously cast the spells that you know as a Sorcerer, and your Sorcerer spell slots are dedicated to those spells. Anything you learn as a Wizard still has to be prepared as normal, and your Wizard spell slots are dedicated to these. You could theoretically learn a spell as both a Sorcerer and a Wizard, and this strategy has its uses, but for most spells it would just be a waste.
scienceman47 06-08-06, 04:22 PM	The sorceror wizard blend is a harsh mix to be sure, but can be done. I hope your not playing point buy, you need to roll at least a 17 and a 16 to manage full casting. If you dont, play a different combo. Load up on defensive spells, and metamagic that lets you fire far away. A better double caster is the wizard psion. But only if your DM lets in that cheese. Psionics meshes way too well with gestalt to allow it.
Darth Sephiroth 06-08-06, 05:35 PM	One scary mix is a Monk/Sorcerer, you become very powerful and capable of wreaking havoc in many different ways without a need of any armor and able to occasionally make his own items when really necessary.
willpower2050 06-08-06, 05:39 PM	Well, this is what I actually thought the whole time. That you would get both. It is also something I am just toying with, as it would make for one hell of a magic user. The freedom to have some spells he knows so well, he never has to memorize them, and the freedom not to be bogged down with only knowing a few spells. If you wanted to make a real kick ass magic user, and not care about offsetting weaknesses, then it would be fine. The group I am in, actually only consists of 2 people, and we take turns DMing, so pretty much, but not comepletely anything goes. What I am actually looking at using is more of a rogue, vigilante sort of character. I was only asking this, because the idea struck me. I do have another question though, I will make another thread for, that does in fact pertain to the game as it is. A.