Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JongWK 05-15-05, 05:36 PM	Would you say that using Gestalts removes the "need" for Prestige Classes?
Millenia 05-15-05, 06:22 PM	I don't think so, unless you were to, say, use the Ultimate variants of the base classe. o_O Many prestige classes have things that cannot be found in any combination of base classes.
Dunelord 05-15-05, 06:43 PM	Depends on what you are trying to do with PrCs.
Dragonblade275 05-15-05, 09:25 PM	Would you say that using Gestalts removes the "need" for Prestige Classes?I think it removes the 'need' for many of them. Honestly, I'm not a fan of prestige classes in general, though. I'd been a lot happier if all of the prestige class abilities were changed into feats (where possible).
HailSpork 05-16-05, 08:10 PM	There really isn't a "need" for prestige classes to begin with. Gestalt does negate the need for any of the prestige classes that it doesn't allow (like mystic theurge).
Dunelord 05-17-05, 12:29 AM	If you want PrCs to make characters more powerful no it proably isn't needed. If you want them to make them able to do certin things that the standard classes can't (like Spellswords casting in full plate with 0% ASF) then you need them. I had some luck with not having PrCs but the characters could take the class abilty as a feat from any PrC they meet the requirement for. If you veiw them as a way to tie the PCs to organizations in your wolrd, which is how I looked at them they are very important.
HailSpork 05-17-05, 01:21 AM	You don't need spellsword to do that; you only need the metamagic feat Still Spell. By the 10th level of the class, you've lost 5 spellcasting levels, enough that stilling all your spells would not result in a loss of repitiore compared to taking straight mage.
Dunelord 05-17-05, 01:39 PM	Hailspork you have missed my point so badly that I'm not even a 100% sure what to say. First the idea is that you know how to cast arcane spells with somatic compoents while in armor. Second it was an exsample, so if you have some issue with Spellsword use Dervish's Dervish Dance as an exsample.
Dragonblade275 05-17-05, 04:43 PM	I had some luck with not having PrCs but the characters could take the class abilty as a feat from any PrC they meet the requirement for.Thank you, Dunelord. :D This is a good idea for determining the prerequisites for turning prestige class features into feats that can be taken by anyone meeting the requirements. (As I said, I'm no fan of prestige classes.)
Endarire 05-17-05, 06:27 PM	It depends heavily on the PrC. Most multiclass patch PrCs, such as mystic theurge, are negated since a Fighter||Wizard is better overall than a Wiz1/Ftr1/Wiz2-5/Eldritch Knight. One reason UA recommends banning these multiclass patches and limits one PrC at a time is because, in theory, assuming militia doesn't require full simple weapon proficiency, I could be a Human precotious apprentice militia Wiz1/Rogue2-5/Eldritch Knight10/Arcane Trickster5 || Rogue1/Cleric3/Mystic Theurge10/Archmage5. Confused yet? -EE
HailSpork 05-17-05, 06:43 PM	Hailspork you have missed my point so badly that I'm not even a 100% sure what to say. First the idea is that you know how to cast arcane spells with somatic compoents while in armor. Second it was an exsample, so if you have some issue with Spellsword use Dervish's Dervish Dance as an exsample. No, I'm pretty sure I got your point. My point is that *most* prestige classes are unnecessary. You can cast in full plate without spellsword, spellsword is just a different approach to it (and adds in channeling and such). Prestige classes add extra little abilities, like dervish dancing. You can't make a dervish without the prestige class. On the other hand, you can very easily make an assassin without the PrC (in fact, I would prefer not to use it).
Dunelord 05-18-05, 06:46 PM	Thank you, Dunelord. :D This is a good idea for determining the prerequisites for turning prestige class features into feats that can be taken by anyone meeting the requirements. (As I said, I'm no fan of prestige classes.) Glad to help. If a class has several versions I have been useing the best one (if their is Generic PrC Trick and Improved Generic PrC Trick they get the improved version) and if it depends on class level it is equal to their character level minus the levels before they took the feat. Classes with large lists of bonus feats - such as Fighter, Rogue, or Wizard - may take abilites from PrCs aimed at them as bonus feats from their classes. No, I'm pretty sure I got your point. My point is that *most* prestige classes are unnecessary. You can cast in full plate without spellsword, spellsword is just a different approach to it (and adds in channeling and such). Prestige classes add extra little abilities, like dervish dancing. You can't make a dervish without the prestige class. On the other hand, you can very easily make an assassin without the PrC (in fact, I would prefer not to use it). Yeah you missed it. My point is that needing them or not needing them depends on what you are trying to do with them, so his question can't really be answer until he defines what he would want to do with them. If it is some game trick then you can do without some of them, althought many others provide things that just aren't accounted for by the standard classes. If it is to tie characters to organizations in the setting, have them care about those organizations by having to work to get those class ablities, and then be reminded of that everytime they use them then gestalting helps not at all. Further even if you don't need them that doesn't make them a bad idea. Look at say the assassin. If you want one who has a death attack, the abilty to parlize, rogues sneak attack, and safe posion use the only way is a PrC