Gestalts and LA [Archive] - Wizards Community

Gestalts and LA [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Minister_for_Moral_Truth
08-03-05, 08:01 AM HAving looked through the five pages on view in this forum and had a try at Almighty Google, I have found nothing, so I come here with yet another Gestalt question.

If one were to have, say, a Hobgoblin wishing Fighter and Wizard classes, it is obvious that having level 1 as Wizard/LA and then going to Wizard/Fighter is somewhat broken, so what to use instead? Would it be reasonable to have characters with a LA take that many levels in non-gestalt NPC classes (no abilities, but hit dice, skills and BAB will make a distinct change)?

Thanks in advance.
TheErsatzFacsimileOfMe
08-03-05, 10:52 AM First off, what is the LA for a Hobgoblin...you'd have to "buy off those levels" before progressing in both classes.

As an example if the Hobo was a +2 LA

Hobo/Fighter
Hobo2/Fighter2
Hobo2/Fighter3/Wizard1
Hobo2/Fighter4/Wizard2

and so on and so forth, you may want to take the Wiz levels first, but then just switch Fighter and Wiz in the progression above.
If you are asking what the "final LA or CR" for a PC or NPC like this, I would need to know the final levels for all classes...

Although, as a rule of thumb: I consider Gestalt PCs to be (without any level adjustments for race) to be a LA+2 or CR+2 for NPCs.

Without the LA for a Hobgoblin or a clearer question, I hope I was somewhat helpful.
Minister_for_Moral_Truth
08-03-05, 07:27 PM Problem is, the adjustment "levels" give presicley zilch by way of hit dice, saves and BAB, so the improvment is greater (hobgoblin/fighter is more of an improvment by on just hobgoblin than rogue/fighter is on just rogue, for example).
DingDongKoJo
08-03-05, 09:04 PM Wait... I thought that LA to a gestalt character affects both sides of class progression. :confused:
Does it only affect one side of progression?
DM Zoc
08-03-05, 10:00 PM Wait... I thought that LA to a gestalt character affects both sides of class progression. :confused:
Does it only affect one side of progression?
It's an entirely optional rule, from the book of optional rules. They never go into it.

If you allow the character to take a class balanced against the LA, then this strictly overpowers the funny races (compare a "half-dragon/ barbarian 3" to "barbarian 3/ any-other-class 3") and you'll see that. On the other hand, if you say that the LA affects both half of the gestalt, then it's strictly worse to take any LA than even in core (where many say it's not worth it as is); compare a "half-dragon/ barbarian 1" to a "barbarian 4/ scout 4" to see my point.

There is no "offical" answer, because gestalt is just a house rule to begin with.
Dunelord
08-03-05, 10:26 PM There are no offical rules so it just depends on what the DM says.
allenchan
08-04-05, 12:12 AM Personally, I find the whole concept of "Massive LA here / HD and abilities here" a load of bunk. I say do the LA the old fashioned way, LA on both sides, no gained. yes, this makes the LA creatures signifcantly weaker, but its better then significantly more powerful.
Max the Immortal
08-04-05, 12:25 AM I like to rule it that LA takes up both sides of a Gestalt progression, racial hit dice are one side; combine that with the LA buyoff rules.
Gilean
08-06-05, 11:26 AM Halve the LA, round up, apply to both sides.
Tisner44
08-08-05, 02:58 PM I agree that if the HD and Lev adj only affect one class then the char is not balanced. I also agree that the if it has a high adj then the char isn't on par with the rest of the party. I like Gilean's idea of cutting it in half, but i'll have to create a couple to see if it works.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Minister_for_Moral_Truth 08-03-05, 08:01 AM	HAving looked through the five pages on view in this forum and had a try at Almighty Google, I have found nothing, so I come here with yet another Gestalt question. If one were to have, say, a Hobgoblin wishing Fighter and Wizard classes, it is obvious that having level 1 as Wizard/LA and then going to Wizard/Fighter is somewhat broken, so what to use instead? Would it be reasonable to have characters with a LA take that many levels in non-gestalt NPC classes (no abilities, but hit dice, skills and BAB will make a distinct change)? Thanks in advance.
TheErsatzFacsimileOfMe 08-03-05, 10:52 AM	First off, what is the LA for a Hobgoblin...you'd have to "buy off those levels" before progressing in both classes. As an example if the Hobo was a +2 LA Hobo/Fighter Hobo2/Fighter2 Hobo2/Fighter3/Wizard1 Hobo2/Fighter4/Wizard2 and so on and so forth, you may want to take the Wiz levels first, but then just switch Fighter and Wiz in the progression above. If you are asking what the "final LA or CR" for a PC or NPC like this, I would need to know the final levels for all classes... Although, as a rule of thumb: I consider Gestalt PCs to be (without any level adjustments for race) to be a LA+2 or CR+2 for NPCs. Without the LA for a Hobgoblin or a clearer question, I hope I was somewhat helpful.
Minister_for_Moral_Truth 08-03-05, 07:27 PM	Problem is, the adjustment "levels" give presicley zilch by way of hit dice, saves and BAB, so the improvment is greater (hobgoblin/fighter is more of an improvment by on just hobgoblin than rogue/fighter is on just rogue, for example).
DingDongKoJo 08-03-05, 09:04 PM	Wait... I thought that LA to a gestalt character affects both sides of class progression. :confused: Does it only affect one side of progression?
DM Zoc 08-03-05, 10:00 PM	Wait... I thought that LA to a gestalt character affects both sides of class progression. :confused: Does it only affect one side of progression? It's an entirely optional rule, from the book of optional rules. They never go into it. If you allow the character to take a class balanced against the LA, then this strictly overpowers the funny races (compare a "half-dragon/ barbarian 3" to "barbarian 3/ any-other-class 3") and you'll see that. On the other hand, if you say that the LA affects both half of the gestalt, then it's strictly worse to take any LA than even in core (where many say it's not worth it as is); compare a "half-dragon/ barbarian 1" to a "barbarian 4/ scout 4" to see my point. There is no "offical" answer, because gestalt is just a house rule to begin with.
Dunelord 08-03-05, 10:26 PM	There are no offical rules so it just depends on what the DM says.
allenchan 08-04-05, 12:12 AM	Personally, I find the whole concept of "Massive LA here / HD and abilities here" a load of bunk. I say do the LA the old fashioned way, LA on both sides, no gained. yes, this makes the LA creatures signifcantly weaker, but its better then significantly more powerful.
Max the Immortal 08-04-05, 12:25 AM	I like to rule it that LA takes up both sides of a Gestalt progression, racial hit dice are one side; combine that with the LA buyoff rules.
Gilean 08-06-05, 11:26 AM	Halve the LA, round up, apply to both sides.
Tisner44 08-08-05, 02:58 PM	I agree that if the HD and Lev adj only affect one class then the char is not balanced. I also agree that the if it has a high adj then the char isn't on par with the rest of the party. I like Gilean's idea of cutting it in half, but i'll have to create a couple to see if it works.