Post/Author/DateTime	Post
dwickham 10-05-06, 12:49 PM	In my party a player wants to use a half-celestial fighter/barbarian gestalt and i need to know if he would have his caracter look like: half-celestial 4 babarian/fighter X or half celestial/fighter 4 barbarian fighter X would RHD work in the same way as LA in an above example or would they come before in the second?
JasonOrlandoHawk 10-05-06, 01:26 PM	I typically stick any RHD or LA on one half of the Gestalt levels. Basically, the Template subtracts from your level (LA +4) on one half of the Gestalt character, but leaves the other half alone. Example: Assuming your character was at sufficient experience to be level 5... He would be either: Barbarian 5/ Gestalt Half Celestial Fighter 1 or Fighter 5/ Gestalt Half Celestial Barbarian 1 depending on which class (Barbarian or Figher) he intended to use as his "main" class.
JasonOrlandoHawk 10-05-06, 01:39 PM	If you're dealing with RHD instead of a Template, I use them the same way... Using a Gestalt Fighter Minotaur as an example (and going off my head, so the stats may be a little off...) A minotaur has 4 RHD and a LA +2 thus, in a level 6 game, the character would be: Minotaur RHD 4, LA +2/ Gestalt Fighter 6 if, later, the party increased to higher levels (let's say 10), you could then add class levels on the Minotaur side of the Gestalt classes... (Adding Ranger to the previous example) the character would look like this... Minotaur (RHD 4, LA+2) Ranger 4/ Gestalt Fighter 10 So, to make this question even more complex... What if you have RHD, a LA, Class Levels, AND a Template? (Moving to Level 14, adding the Half-Celestial Template) the character would look like this... 1)Half-Celestial Minotaur (RHD 4, LA+6: +2 Racial, +4 Half- Celestial) Ranger 4/ Gestalt Fighter 14 Of Course, you could seperate the RHD and the Template on such a character, in which case, the character would look like this at level 14... 2)Minotaur (RHD 4, LA +2) Ranger 8/ Gestalt Half Celestial (LA+4) Fighter 10 However, I would recommend against this because it lowers the characters overall power levels. In example 1, the character has 14 HD (from his Gestalt Fighter Levels), while in example 2, he only has 12 HD (from his 4 RHD and 8 ranger levels). This will result in the loss of skill points, hit points, BAB, Saves, etc... for example 2, with no appreciable difference in available abilities. I, personally, stick all RHD, Templates, and LA on the same side, if possible.
dwickham 10-05-06, 01:44 PM	thats what i thought but i decided to check
gbnogkfs 10-07-06, 01:02 PM	The problem is allowing LA to fully gestalt adds more than a simple gestalt: that is because LA normally adds no BAB, no Saves, no skill points, no hit points, while if gestalted they suddenly pop in; on the other hand, not to allow LA gestalting is too restrictive, because you deny double ability for those levels. But probably the first option is the fairest. Also note that this eliminates LA effectively: as all levels will have a HD.
Pellanor 10-11-06, 01:28 PM	Try this: Compare a Fighter/Barbarian 4 to a Half-Celestial Fighter 4 or a Half-Celestial Barbarian 4. Odds are the Fighter / Barbarian will be weaker, by a fair margin. What I would suggest is treat LA as normal, but reduce it. Perhaps 1/2 rounded up (so LA 3 = LA 2).
SageBahamut 10-11-06, 05:38 PM	I would actually expect quite the opposite in most cases, only because level adjustment is often so punitively, and pointlessly, high that you really ought not be using it anyway. Not that some races aren't as powerful, but, as I've said before, you're not going to convince me that your Ftr5/Vampire(+8LA!) is the equivalent of 13 levels of anything. Honestly I would simply use the example in the first case of gbnogkfs' arguement above.
hyperion573 10-12-06, 08:28 PM	What about this? LA take away from both sides of the gestalt while RHD takes up one of the sides of the Gestalt... I don't necesarily know how this would effect power level overall but I imagine it to be weaker then the suggestion above cause then it removes the HD, BAB, the saves, and everything else that comes with RHD but not LA, plus the otherside will be weaker due to LA. The only problem I can think of without putting too much effort into it is that the LA might make the character weaker if the abilites don't provide enough for a gestalt campaign. This is just a thought and I haven't tested this or anything. EDIT: If LA with this method shows a problem it miht be an idea to cut down on the LA... just a quick thought.
Pellanor 10-13-06, 03:17 PM	I would actually expect quite the opposite in most cases, only because level adjustment is often so punitively, and pointlessly, high that you really ought not be using it anyway. Not that some races aren't as powerful, but, as I've said before, you're not going to convince me that your Ftr5/Vampire(+8LA!) is the equivalent of 13 levels of anything. Honestly I would simply use the example in the first case of gbnogkfs' arguement above.Ftr 5 / Vampire 8 vs Commoner 13! However let's try this: Barbarian 13 // Fighter 5 / Vampire 8 vs Barbarian 13 // Fighter 13 So at this point you're trading four Fighter Bonus Feats for the Vampire template. I have a feeling that the vampire would be much more powerfull. Now let's try a Barbarian 9 // Fighter 9 Vampire and compare it to those two. This time you're losing notably more than four bonus feats (HD, BAB, saves, feats, skills, mighty rage) but the Vampie benefits are much more likely to be balanced. Though I must agree with you when you say "level adjustment is often so punitively, and pointlessly, high".