Post/Author/DateTime	Post
St. Maelstrom 06-12-04, 02:22 AM	Could I get some suggestions for my players about developing three gestalt characters? The game is primarily urban, and obvious armor and weapons is going to be difficult within the city limits. Limiting the effectiveness of fighters and paladins. I have only one player that can/will play “devote religious” characters. So, limit the cleric, paladin, and druid suggestions to one please. So, given these restrictions; What three gestalt characters compliment each other the most? Can I cover all the bases? Thank you all in advance.
Deathmage 06-12-04, 02:41 AM	cleric/urban ranger---- best base attack, healing, and urban rouge/wizard (or rouge/sorcerer)--- nothing like a sneak attack with a range touch spell. I personally would go rouge sorcerer, that way you have the cha do deal with people as for the last one, how about... barbarian/bard--- there's nothing like being smashed across the skull with a flute i know the first 2 are good, but i think lack of sleep is getting the best of me on the last one. Have Fun!!!
Deathmage 06-12-04, 02:49 AM	now that i think about it, a barbarian bard would be awsome. you play music, and when someone laughs at you for being a bard, :headexplo and then this guy :bigeyes: realizes he made a mistake as you snape your fingures and your greatsword from your glove of storing appears. just a thought.
fish_heads 06-12-04, 02:51 AM	Originally posted by St. Maelstrom The game is primarily urban, and obvious armor and weapons is going to be difficult within the city limits. Depending on what level they start at and what kind of funds they have, Glamered armor would be a good idea. As far as combinations, I would do this as one possible combo: a paladin/cleric - good attack, tons of divine spells a rogue/sorcerer or monk/sorcerer- unarmored, sneaky, and spellcasting A Fighter/something else that hurts when it hits - the Tank Consider having the paladin act as a ranged and frontline fighter, and have the arcane caster strictly for ranged attacks. this way, you can have the tank take care of business while the other two fire from behind, and then the paladin can come in if things get out of hand. The important thing to remember is that the most balanced combinations will be arcane/divine/roguish/tank. I don't know how you plan on running your game, but it's something to consider.
Lady Fierna 06-14-04, 11:16 AM	Here's a possible party: Hexblade/Soulknife- Saved money and hexing even when disarmed/Even more things you can do with your mind blade and a high BAB (This character would fill the role of Warrior) Favored Soul or Spirit Shaman/Sorcerer or Wilder- Greater spellcasting ability or new manifesting ability/ Greater or new spellcasting ability plus ability to heal. (This character would fill the role of Spellcaster) Rogue/Bard or Noble (Dragonlance CS) or Courtier (Rokugan CS)- Spellcasting ability (if bard) and inspiration abilities (if bard or noble) or handy special abilities (if courtier)/More skill points and wider selection and handy special abilities (including, but not limited to sneak attack). (This character would fill the role of Expert) With this team, I tried to strengthen party roles instead of having everyone multitask (as tends to be a trend with gestalts). This way, the warrior archetype still wades into battle and doesn't have to worry about staying back so he doesn't suffer an AoO when casting, the expert archetype doesn't have to worry about healing the fighter when he could be making a sneak attack, and the spellcaster archetype doesn't have to worry about running out of spell slots.
Nifft 06-14-04, 11:57 AM	They are the last scions of the lost ZenTemple! They have been trained in arts mystical and profound! They need neither armor nor weapons to hand you your own butt! They are sworn to destroy those who slew their masters and desecrated their temple! Noji of the Word -- Monk // Cleric Kago Lightfinger -- Monk // Rogue Askra the Caller -- Monk // Wizard You've got all your bases covered except mega-tank, so avoid fair melee. You've all got great combat mobility, good stealth capability (until you start casting), and a metric ship-loads of skill points, so you should have little trouble avoiding combat. For a lower-magic world, or a "touched by the powers" kinda feeling: Monk // Favored Soul Monk // Rogue Monk // Sorcerer -- N
werewullfe3 06-14-04, 12:05 PM	Here are three builds I've always liked: Druid/Barbarian: Good healing, decent offensive spells, rage AND shapeshifting... at the same time (right?)... Who needs weapons or armor when you can just shift into a raging bear? Fighter/Monk: Gives the monk the best BAB, all those nice feats, and (like above) doesn't need items to be deadly Fighter/Psion: The true psychic warrior, 'nuff said. WWOT: Lady Fierna, love your Family Guy quotes, funny stuff.
Lady Fierna 06-15-04, 10:32 AM	Here are a few others: Wilder/Barbarian: Rage=good. Raging euphoria=good. Rage+raging euphoria=better. (Take psychometabolism powers as a wilder.) See if you can get the DM... wait. You are the DM. Come up with a psionic Rage Mage like in CW. Maybe pick up a few levels of Frenzied Berzerker, too. (Also in CW) Psychic Warrior/Bard: Like a bard, only with bonus feats and psionics. Improve your scouting role by taking Elocater (XPH). Rogue or Noble or Courtier/Favored Soul: Fills the healing role, plus gives your party a "Face" character. As soon as you can, take levels in Mastermind (Rokugan CS). Werewullfe3: Thanks. I rather like them, too. (Though I may replace them with new ones, soon.)
Nifft 06-15-04, 03:05 PM	If you have Psionics: Druid/Nature's Warrior // Psychic Warrior -> Make those claws hurt! Rogue // Psion (Nomad) -> You're the ultimate break-in guy. Paladin // Wilder -> Taste the fury of my God! -- good powers are Vigor, Force Screen (+ 2-handed weapon), Empathic Transfer (very Paladin-like, perhaps not very useful for the Feat it costs), Biofeedback, Energy Retort, Aura Sight (like Detect Evil on steroids), True Seeing. (That's up to level 10 or so.) -- N
BrianMc223 06-15-04, 04:30 PM	VOP, Drd20/Saint(4)/Mnk1/Rog5/Invisible Blade10. In the right wildshape this charector can easily have an ac of more than 60 by 20th level. It is however not well suited for an urban campainge. (And is cheep and broken and has an alignment problem.)
bahamut_0 06-15-04, 04:38 PM	I like the idea of a barbarian/bard, that could be very fun to play.
roll8dn 06-15-04, 04:49 PM	Cool ideas: 1.)Bard/Urban Ranger: offers the ideas of using weapon finesse with TWF, don't have to wear armor (or at least, not much; leather is fine for a city setting), good saves, ability to cast both arcane and divine spells, plus you get the feel of the foolish young man (elf, dwarf, etc.)/ dedicated vigilante that never forgets slights and fights injustice anywhere while having a good time with the rest of society. 2.)Fighter/Rouge: offers good skills, good fighting abilities; role play it as either the thug that enforces the local crime syndicate, the ultimate survivor of tavern brawls, or part of the local guard that specializes in investigation of puzzling crimes (having all of the skills, (s)he's seen most of the tricks of the trade). 3.)Fighter/Paladin: the city's champion, offers good fighting skills, plus the ability and inclination to be a pillar(sp?) of the community, offers the ability to tie the local ecclestial centers into intrigue within the secular authorities. 4.)Cleric/Monk: the church's enforcer, offers good saves coupled with enormous damage potential, good skill progression, and the ability to be armed even when one is unarmed or immobilized. 5.)Wizard/Expert: the local fabricator, offers good skills, plus the ability to cast spells, and become well-propertied in the community; one plays a merchant who also has the ability to blast anyone who tries to stel from his store. 6.)Bard/Aristocrat: the pretentious (sp?) young scion of a powerful family who loves the arts, offers good gold, social standing (even if the character is the "black sheep" of the family), good skills, decent fighting abilities, and decent saves. 7.)Weapon ideas: limit the characters to those weapons that are useful and common in a city, such as the rapier (how many duelists are there amongst the upper class?), sap (classic), club, the monk weapons that could be hidden about the body, the quarterstaff ("This, officer? Why, it's just my walking stick..."), the dagger, the sling ("Why, I just got in from my uncle's farm..."), the light hammer, and the bola; all of these weapons were either common amongst the aristocracy, were part of everydey life and work, or were easily hidden about the body. 8.)Armor ideas: admittedly, at higher level, glamered armor is a good idea, but for starting packages, limiting the armor to padded, leather, and chain shirt makes sense; the padded and leather can be passed of as everyday clothing, and the chain shirt can be hidden under a long tunic or cloak. :whatsthis Hope it helps...
Lasrifriir 06-15-04, 04:50 PM	Cleric/Monk: Very nice build for someone who likes versatility. All good saves, 8 sided hit die, plus an entire repetoire of buffing spells. The fast movement means that you can deliver touch inflict spells and cure spells with impunity as well. Swashbuckler (CW)/Rogue: Full BAB, 10 sided hit die, 8+ skill points per level, sneak attack, innate dodge bonus and Int bonus to AC... extremely nice build for someone who likes a rogue that is no slouch at in-your face combat. Soul-Knife (XPH)/ Fighter: Full BAB, 10 sided hit die, all good saves, psychic strike, an undisarmable weapon that the player dosen't need to pay for... again, a very nice build, but mainly for combat situations. Combined with the Master Thrower prestige class from the Complete Warrior, this can become a deadly (short) ranged combatant as well.
St. Maelstrom 06-15-04, 05:25 PM	I love the suggestions so far, I am not even sure where to begin saying thanks. There are many good suggestions here. I'll bring these ideas to my players and see what they think. As for the campaign itself: I am trying to push a more subtle, city combat focused on quick and devastating strikes. Nothing that will go on and on and attract the guard. There are monasteries in the local vicinity so, monks are a definite possibility. I only have one player who likes psionics, and according to what he told me last night, he is “tired of the same old same old”. He asked for a no-magics and no-psionics character. (Which surprised the heck out of me.) So, I don’t know… My third player wants a character that is at least part ranger. He doesn’t particularly care what I merge the ranger with, but traditionally he plays sorcerers or wizards. He is quite good at them, much better than a non-arcane character. As a fighter or barbarian he has the worst luck and is CONSTANTLY getting killed. (We therefore constantly tease him about single handedly keeping every cleric in the campaign busy.) Oddly enough, his low hp arcane characters do amazingly well. Go fig. So I am currently thinking: Player 1: Fighter/rogue Player 2: Cleric/unknown Player 3: Ranger/unknown Again, thanks for all your help! Any more thoughts?
werewullfe3 06-15-04, 05:36 PM	Cleric/monk (for reasons others have given) Ranger/Sorcerer (natural mix if you ask me, even in the MotW it states that if a ranger was an arcane spell caster he'd be a sorcerer).
Nifft 06-16-04, 12:28 AM	If you've got one Rogue, perhaps you should have three? The PCs are all from the same guild of thieves. Fighter/Rogue Cleric/Rogue Ranger/Rogue -- especially with the TWF combat path They will strike quickly and their ambushes will be devistating indeed, especially when they start flanking. Or, everyone's a combat monster: Fighter/Rogue Cleric/Fighter Ranger/Barbarian (In this case, the Ranger takes the Archery path, and uses a two-handed weapon when fighting in melee.) -- N
jagggar 06-16-04, 12:56 AM	Urban Druid (Dragon 317) is a nice urban class and would probably go good with just about anything. You can run around the corner and turn into a city creature, later on objects and animated ones too. They get through crowds quickly, and fight well in close quarters (5 ft wide corridors and around corners). They're divine casters (with healing), but you don't really have the dedicated feel since your power comes from sort of the life of the city. CHA casting and a good assortment of social skills. However, they do have limited weapon proficiencies and armor restrictions. Urban Druid/Rogue "I round the corner and turn into a dog." DM: The thug following you slows down and looks around, puzzled at where you could have went. "I sneak attack his :censored: :censored: :censored: !" Urban Druid/Monk What lacky could bare to return and confess that he was beat up by a wagon? Urban Druid/Urban Ranger Good BAB. . . hehehe. . .
Bard-of-all-trades 06-16-04, 03:54 PM	Monk / Cleric Ranger / Rogue Bard / Sorcerer Each character uses one primary ability score, so there is no worry about watering things down. You have each of the big four represented. All work well in an urban environment (especially if you use the Urban Ranger variant) and with little or no armor. This would be a well rounded and entertaining group to play, I would think.
Fălenganor 06-16-04, 10:23 PM	Char 1: Sorcerer/Wielder Char 2: Monk or Druid or Urban Ranger/Cleric Char 3: Barbarian/Psychic Warrior or Soulknife All characters will be what Gestalt should, devastation forces. Char 1 is the best nuker, Char 2 can be a full time divine caster or a powerfull-hella-buffed- fighter, depends the way you go, Char 3 is the tank, go soulknife if you don`t want to rely in multiple ability scores, he will dominate the battlefield. If you want a rogue you could put instead of ''Monk or Druid or Urban Ranger'' in Char 2, but I wouldn`t reccommend it, since you could easily ''emulate'' the rogue`s utility with spells and magic items.
roll8dn 06-17-04, 02:27 AM	So, you are intending to go with 1.)Fighter/Rogue 2.)Cleric/? 3.)Ranger/? My recommendations: 1.)Fighter/Rogue: Treat it as the career thug, the dedicated assasin(sp?), the local justicar, or the career gutter-fighter. 2.)Cleric/Monk: Defender of the Faith: can be very buhddist monk-like, or simply can be a specialized person in the church with certain martial skills 3.)Urban Ranger/Bard: The penultimate tracker/survivor in the city; has Bardic Knowledge to gather information as well as the Ranger's Track feat; treat it as the foolish scion of an important family (acting foolish to cover up his abilities: having contacts in the underworld of the city would be essential to how I would play this character). Just a couple of ideas...
St. Maelstrom 06-27-04, 01:24 PM	Everybody, I want to thank you for all the awesome suggestions. I presented them to my players and we finally decided on: Fighter/Assassin (Core class from LaL:Cityworks) Urban Ranger/Bard Cleric/Sorcerer Again, thanks for all the suggestions, thoughts, and time. My players also so thanks.
Ertai Planeswalker 06-28-04, 07:05 AM	:D Troubles with doubles :D
Ertai Planeswalker 06-28-04, 07:16 AM	1: Swashbuckler / Rogue. D10 HD, needs no armor, lots of skills. 2: Cleric / Monk. Again no armor, and full clerical progression. (Remember, clerics are not required to have a deity.) 3: Sorcerer / Bard. This guy can wear light armor and ignore ASF, and can obtain any knowledge you need from the city or it's inhabitants. With it's high charisma, this is your diplomat / merchant. A little weak on the combat side but this one is also a 'reserve healer' and packs quite some offense with arcane spellcasting of course. This will probably make the best all round party. Each of them can hold it's own in combat (Though the Sor/Brd needs a few levels), and each of them fills one of the other classical party roles.
Bard-of-all-trades 06-29-04, 10:56 PM	Congrats on the party being finallized. Hope to hear about how well it does in your campaign.
Dagart Anderheim 07-17-04, 11:23 PM	Rog/Wiz Pal/Clr Fgt/Mnk Fgt/Rog In general fighters, and rogues are good for most cominations (good HP, Bab, and bonus feats; good skills, and sneak attack). My groups next campaign will be in a punk gothic fantasy world (think final fantasy 6, and 7, especially midgar). I'll be a Psion(Nomad)/Monk. :D
fish_heads 07-17-04, 11:40 PM	Originally posted by Ertai Planeswalker 3: Sorcerer / Bard. This guy can wear light armor and ignore ASF I only point this out because I once tried this same thing - the ASF ingnoring is ONLY for Bard Spells. Sorcerer spells would still suffer the ASF penalty.
trapspringer 07-20-04, 09:36 AM	Barb/B.Sor. Why? d12 hd, light armor casting, familiar. step 2: race = halfling + I.Familiar->Blink dog = death to all who oppose you!
Commander of Chaos 07-20-04, 11:52 PM	this takes a little while to get into, but it shanks anything w/o an insane to hit. Swashbuckler/ duelest sprinkled with other things. At level 16 you can't be touched.
trapspringer 07-21-04, 06:06 PM	Yea, hard to argue with that. Just take all your other levels in sorcerer. And a couple in Monk for evasion...