Healing as subdual conversion? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Healing as subdual conversion? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
HuManBing
06-30-07, 08:07 AM Hello,

In one of the Unearthed Arcana sidebars, there is a "healing as subdual conversion" house rule. This basically says that any healing magic functions to restore hp loss by converting it into subdual damage, so that the PCs regain the damage at a rate of (1hp x PC level)/hr.

I tried this with my players in a Ravenloft campaign adventure, which went rather well because Ravenloft is supposed to be a fairly dangerous place. It also discourages headlong charges into combat, because a Fighter with 15 hp is only ever going to be able to take 15 hp of damage in a single fight before keeling over, regardless of how much healing you apply. It makes the PCs more cautious.

However, my players have been a little concerned about this because it essentially eliminates any short-term effect of healing whatsoever. Instead of death, it makes unconsciousness more likely. But a Fighter with 10 hp who takes 5 hp damage, and then receives 5 hp of CLW, still only has 5 hp cushion left between him and unconsciousness. This rules variant makes healing faster between encounters, but eliminates most of the tactical benefit to healing within an encounter.

The players propose another variant: that healing magic first converts lost hp into subdual damage as suggested above. But then once all lost hp are converted into subdual damage, then further healing magic then eliminates the subdual damage on a 1-to-1 basis.

e.g.

Fighter, who has 15 hp, takes 8 hp damage from an enemy. Cleric casts CLW on him, healing 8 hp and converting that to subdual. Fighter now has 15/8 in hp/subdual.

Fighter now takes another 8 hp damage from an enemy. This reduces his hp to 7, which is less than his accumulated subdual. Fighter slumps to the ground, unconscious (but not in danger of dying from blood loss). He will remain that way for just under an hour, because he eliminates (his level) number of subdual damage per hour, and he's probably level 2 or 3 at this point.

Cleric then casts CLW to heal his 7 hp. HOWEVER THIS STILL CONVERTS THAT INTO SUBDUAL. So Fighter has 15hp again, but he also has 15 subdual damage. (Two attacks totalling 15 hp against him.) He's still woozy and out of it, though he can now walk, hopefully away from the damage source.

This next step illustrates the players' proposal.

Now, the Cleric burns another spell to cast CLW on the Fighter again. Because the Fighter is at full hp, the spell now targets his subdual. Even eliminating 1 subdual point will restore the Fighter to normal functionality. Say the Cleric rolls poorly and only "heals" 2 hp. This eliminates 2 points of subdual.

Fighter is now at 15/13 hp/sd. He can walk around and take actions normally, but should be careful because taking even two points of hp damage will put him back into staggered, and taking 3 or more will knock him out.

What do you think? This mechanic basically halves the effectiveness of healing magic, by creating a second class of hit points that healing magic has to affect as well, before the character is back to full health.
zzo38
06-30-07, 01:41 PM Yes, I think this makes sense, if you are using that rule from UA it should work like this instead.
ed209
06-30-07, 04:49 PM ... Yeah, but it forces your healers to blow twice as many spells to keep characters up. How about you keep it just as subdual, but also create a feat that characters can take that allow them to bestow temp hit points when the cast cures on someone, say equal to the amount of damage converted to subdual, possibly less...

P.S. Of course, you can just change the spells this way, instead of making it a feat...
Cheza
06-30-07, 05:06 PM I don't like it. My characters use a wand of cure light wounds instead of higher cure spells, because the output is higher with lower cost. So if you negate instant combat effects, potions will be useless.
Schmendrick
07-02-07, 10:06 PM This is a good modification to the variant.

Alternately (or additionally), if you want to lessen the "blow" of the variant, you can rule that healing spells, in addition to converting the healed points, also heal a number of subdual/nonlethal damage equal (or directly proportional) to their spell level (similar to the effects of the Augment Healing feat). So a 7 point CLW heals one point of damage "really and truly" and converts 6 points of damage to nonlethal.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
HuManBing 06-30-07, 08:07 AM	Hello, In one of the Unearthed Arcana sidebars, there is a "healing as subdual conversion" house rule. This basically says that any healing magic functions to restore hp loss by converting it into subdual damage, so that the PCs regain the damage at a rate of (1hp x PC level)/hr. I tried this with my players in a Ravenloft campaign adventure, which went rather well because Ravenloft is supposed to be a fairly dangerous place. It also discourages headlong charges into combat, because a Fighter with 15 hp is only ever going to be able to take 15 hp of damage in a single fight before keeling over, regardless of how much healing you apply. It makes the PCs more cautious. However, my players have been a little concerned about this because it essentially eliminates any short-term effect of healing whatsoever. Instead of death, it makes unconsciousness more likely. But a Fighter with 10 hp who takes 5 hp damage, and then receives 5 hp of CLW, still only has 5 hp cushion left between him and unconsciousness. This rules variant makes healing faster between encounters, but eliminates most of the tactical benefit to healing within an encounter. The players propose another variant: that healing magic first converts lost hp into subdual damage as suggested above. But then once all lost hp are converted into subdual damage, then further healing magic then eliminates the subdual damage on a 1-to-1 basis. e.g. Fighter, who has 15 hp, takes 8 hp damage from an enemy. Cleric casts CLW on him, healing 8 hp and converting that to subdual. Fighter now has 15/8 in hp/subdual. Fighter now takes another 8 hp damage from an enemy. This reduces his hp to 7, which is less than his accumulated subdual. Fighter slumps to the ground, unconscious (but not in danger of dying from blood loss). He will remain that way for just under an hour, because he eliminates (his level) number of subdual damage per hour, and he's probably level 2 or 3 at this point. Cleric then casts CLW to heal his 7 hp. HOWEVER THIS STILL CONVERTS THAT INTO SUBDUAL. So Fighter has 15hp again, but he also has 15 subdual damage. (Two attacks totalling 15 hp against him.) He's still woozy and out of it, though he can now walk, hopefully away from the damage source. This next step illustrates the players' proposal. Now, the Cleric burns another spell to cast CLW on the Fighter again. Because the Fighter is at full hp, the spell now targets his subdual. Even eliminating 1 subdual point will restore the Fighter to normal functionality. Say the Cleric rolls poorly and only "heals" 2 hp. This eliminates 2 points of subdual. Fighter is now at 15/13 hp/sd. He can walk around and take actions normally, but should be careful because taking even two points of hp damage will put him back into staggered, and taking 3 or more will knock him out. What do you think? This mechanic basically halves the effectiveness of healing magic, by creating a second class of hit points that healing magic has to affect as well, before the character is back to full health.
zzo38 06-30-07, 01:41 PM	Yes, I think this makes sense, if you are using that rule from UA it should work like this instead.
ed209 06-30-07, 04:49 PM	... Yeah, but it forces your healers to blow twice as many spells to keep characters up. How about you keep it just as subdual, but also create a feat that characters can take that allow them to bestow temp hit points when the cast cures on someone, say equal to the amount of damage converted to subdual, possibly less... P.S. Of course, you can just change the spells this way, instead of making it a feat...
Cheza 06-30-07, 05:06 PM	I don't like it. My characters use a wand of cure light wounds instead of higher cure spells, because the output is higher with lower cost. So if you negate instant combat effects, potions will be useless.
Schmendrick 07-02-07, 10:06 PM	This is a good modification to the variant. Alternately (or additionally), if you want to lessen the "blow" of the variant, you can rule that healing spells, in addition to converting the healed points, also heal a number of subdual/nonlethal damage equal (or directly proportional) to their spell level (similar to the effects of the Augment Healing feat). So a 7 point CLW heals one point of damage "really and truly" and converts 6 points of damage to nonlethal.