Heart System [Archive] - Wizards Community

Heart System [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
JimProfit
12-04-07, 10:03 PM http://www.zeldauniverse.net/games/other/sc2/linkpose1.gif
Based off the idea of Zelda, I've tooken away HP and wanna replace it with "hearts", the idea of hearts seems kindof balanced in it's own right, noone can die on the first hit (unless it's massive damage).

Every character starts off with three hearts, whenever damage would be taken, they roll a d20+hit die type+con modifier.

If the roll is equal to or greater then damage taken, they don't lose a heart, if it's not, they lose a heart-slot, and that heart has damage reserved on it equal to damage taken. You can only heal one heart at a time. (Making divine casters slighty weaker) Eight hours of rest will heal one heart, but it will always heal the least damaged heart first.

Weapons:
Weapons and natural attacks had to be changed a little to accomodate. On critical hits, you get auto-success still, but instead of multiplyer (which is now always on) you add "critical damage die", which unlike the damage normaly, is not effected by size.

Let's say jimmy human stabs tom the barbarian with a dagger and gets a critical.

He rolls 1d4 x2 for dagger damage, that's right, it's automaticaly multiplied, let's say he rolls a 4, but now he adds the critical damage before applying mutiplyer, he rolls a 3 on 1d3 critical damage. So 7x2=14 damage.

Tom the barbarian will roll 1d20+1d12 (his hit die type)+con mod to "resist" this damage. Which he probably will anyway.

Even if Tom was level 5 or level 1, it makes no differance, it's always 1d20+1d12+con modifier.

Massive Damage:
To make combat less about fireballs and give weapons some actual umph, massive damage applies. Massive damage is triggerd whenever you take damage equal to or greater then your constitution score.

If taken by a normal attack (such as weapon or natural weapons) you either make a fortitude save equal to damage dealt, or a default fort save of 15. Whichever is higher.

If taken by magical means, you just make the default 15 check. Theoreticaly this means massive damage by weapons/etc will be more dangerous then damage taken by magic.
CryoSilver
12-04-07, 10:44 PM You've presented this system before, haven't you?

The problem is that combat is already slow, and this adds 50% more rolls.

Also, this means there's really no reason to try and deal more than 20 or so damage at once; a fighter of 5th level is going to hurt something as well as a 20th level fighter.
Fireclave
12-04-07, 11:13 PM Based off the idea of Zelda, I've tooken away HP and wanna replace it with "hearts", the idea of hearts seems kindof balanced in it's own right, noone can die on the first hit (unless it's massive damage).

FYI, hearts in Zelda are hit points. They're just graphically represented instead of numerically represented. In most Zelda games, 1 heart == 4 HP, and link starts off with 12HP. The fanboy in me made me say that.

You can only heal one heart at a time.
The fanboy in me also wanted to mention that Zelda does not work like this either. My inner fanboy will now remain quiet.

Every character starts off with three hearts, whenever damage would be taken, they roll a d20+hit die type+con modifier.
So basically, you're making a "save" vs HP damage each time you take damage? This greatly dis-favors attacks and strategies normally deal small amounts of damage over time. Spells like magic missile and strategies like TWF for example.

This also nerfs the survivability characters like rouges, wizards, bards, and sorcerer, who typically have lower HD and constitutions while greatly favoring melee brusiers.

Weapons and natural attacks had to be changed a little to accomodate. On critical hits, you get auto-success still, but instead of multiplyer (which is now always on) you add "critical damage die", which unlike the damage normaly, is not effected by size.

Let's say jimmy human stabs tom the barbarian with a dagger and gets a critical.

He rolls 1d4 x2 for dagger damage, that's right, it's automaticaly multiplied, let's say he rolls a 4, but now he adds the critical damage before applying mutiplyer, he rolls a 3 on 1d3 critical damage. So 7x2=14 damage.
So when you roll a crit, you add an additional +1d3 points of weapon damage and auto-confirm?

Massive Damage:
To make combat less about fireballs and give weapons some actual umph, massive damage applies. Massive damage is triggerd whenever you take damage equal to or greater then your constitution score.

If taken by a normal attack (such as weapon or natural weapons) you either make a fortitude save equal to damage dealt, or a default fort save of 15. Whichever is higher.

Very deadly unless you rebalanced damage for the rest of the game. With this system, it's fairly easy to force Massive Damage saves at first level, and damage will greatly outstrip a creature's con score.

If taken by magical means, you just make the default 15 check. Theoreticaly this means massive damage by weapons/etc will be more dangerous then damage taken by magic.
It seems arbitrary that a sword through the chest is more likely to kill you that an explosion with a temperature greater than lava or having the very bonds of your molecules undone, but I'll roll with it for the moment. Still leaves me with non-magical magical means of causing Massive Damage saves, either directly or indirectly. Spells like Summon Monster, Orb of ___, Shrink Item, Splinter Bolt, Dominate Person (on the party's 2H fighter) and Telekinesis immediately come to mind without trying.

Also, what happens when you would normally gain HD? And how do you handle con damage and temporary HP?

This system is rather complicated to attempt to balance since you are changing such a integral part of the game. It also adds lots of additional rolls that slow down the game, and I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish with this houserule. It's a novel idea, but I don't think it plays nice with the rest of D&D's mechanics.
Puritan13
12-05-07, 12:13 AM Not gonna bother reading the rest of your post, you used the work "tooken".

We, as a nation, really need to invest more in our schools.
Aryxbez
12-05-07, 12:36 AM Interesting idea, the thought of having hearts is kinda nifty.

However if you wish to remove HP altogether, then this variant might be up your alley.

The Injury (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/injury.htm) variant. I plan on using it for a fantasy western game of mine. I think it is pretty nifty, shows the idea anyone can fall in one strike, however D&D will be sure to unbalance it. As there Great Fortitude feat, and multiclassing, that people will abuse to ensure their Fort saves at the greatest possible.

However the Vitality/wound system also represents well the idea that one can die from a crit.
Rustmonster
12-05-07, 09:33 AM As was pointed out, in LoZ, a "Heart" was not on unit of health, it was actually two (or four, in the newer games. I will use two for examples) "HP". Different attacks caused different damage. An Octorok might cause only half of a heart, or one "HP", because they are weak. Then again, a huge boss monster, like Ganon, might cause three hearts woth of damage, or six "HP". It was never "one hit is always one heart". In fact, in LoZ 2, you had no hearts. You had a health bar. Weak enemies caused little damage, while strong ones cause more. Like in D&D.

Really, this seems like just a reworking of your old "health bar" system. Neither that mechanic nor this one is similar to the mechanics you wish to emulate. They are rather clunky, and only serve to increase rolls. Also, there is the matter of "one damage or you die" as the only damage an attack can cause, plus the fact that even a hit may not cause damage. Stick with the HP system. It is far more similar to LoZ than this.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JimProfit 12-04-07, 10:03 PM	http://www.zeldauniverse.net/games/other/sc2/linkpose1.gif Based off the idea of Zelda, I've tooken away HP and wanna replace it with "hearts", the idea of hearts seems kindof balanced in it's own right, noone can die on the first hit (unless it's massive damage). Every character starts off with three hearts, whenever damage would be taken, they roll a d20+hit die type+con modifier. If the roll is equal to or greater then damage taken, they don't lose a heart, if it's not, they lose a heart-slot, and that heart has damage reserved on it equal to damage taken. You can only heal one heart at a time. (Making divine casters slighty weaker) Eight hours of rest will heal one heart, but it will always heal the least damaged heart first. Weapons: Weapons and natural attacks had to be changed a little to accomodate. On critical hits, you get auto-success still, but instead of multiplyer (which is now always on) you add "critical damage die", which unlike the damage normaly, is not effected by size. Let's say jimmy human stabs tom the barbarian with a dagger and gets a critical. He rolls 1d4 x2 for dagger damage, that's right, it's automaticaly multiplied, let's say he rolls a 4, but now he adds the critical damage before applying mutiplyer, he rolls a 3 on 1d3 critical damage. So 7x2=14 damage. Tom the barbarian will roll 1d20+1d12 (his hit die type)+con mod to "resist" this damage. Which he probably will anyway. Even if Tom was level 5 or level 1, it makes no differance, it's always 1d20+1d12+con modifier. Massive Damage: To make combat less about fireballs and give weapons some actual umph, massive damage applies. Massive damage is triggerd whenever you take damage equal to or greater then your constitution score. If taken by a normal attack (such as weapon or natural weapons) you either make a fortitude save equal to damage dealt, or a default fort save of 15. Whichever is higher. If taken by magical means, you just make the default 15 check. Theoreticaly this means massive damage by weapons/etc will be more dangerous then damage taken by magic.
CryoSilver 12-04-07, 10:44 PM	You've presented this system before, haven't you? The problem is that combat is already slow, and this adds 50% more rolls. Also, this means there's really no reason to try and deal more than 20 or so damage at once; a fighter of 5th level is going to hurt something as well as a 20th level fighter.
Fireclave 12-04-07, 11:13 PM	Based off the idea of Zelda, I've tooken away HP and wanna replace it with "hearts", the idea of hearts seems kindof balanced in it's own right, noone can die on the first hit (unless it's massive damage). FYI, hearts in Zelda are hit points. They're just graphically represented instead of numerically represented. In most Zelda games, 1 heart == 4 HP, and link starts off with 12HP. The fanboy in me made me say that. You can only heal one heart at a time. The fanboy in me also wanted to mention that Zelda does not work like this either. My inner fanboy will now remain quiet. Every character starts off with three hearts, whenever damage would be taken, they roll a d20+hit die type+con modifier. So basically, you're making a "save" vs HP damage each time you take damage? This greatly dis-favors attacks and strategies normally deal small amounts of damage over time. Spells like magic missile and strategies like TWF for example. This also nerfs the survivability characters like rouges, wizards, bards, and sorcerer, who typically have lower HD and constitutions while greatly favoring melee brusiers. Weapons and natural attacks had to be changed a little to accomodate. On critical hits, you get auto-success still, but instead of multiplyer (which is now always on) you add "critical damage die", which unlike the damage normaly, is not effected by size. Let's say jimmy human stabs tom the barbarian with a dagger and gets a critical. He rolls 1d4 x2 for dagger damage, that's right, it's automaticaly multiplied, let's say he rolls a 4, but now he adds the critical damage before applying mutiplyer, he rolls a 3 on 1d3 critical damage. So 7x2=14 damage. So when you roll a crit, you add an additional +1d3 points of weapon damage and auto-confirm? Massive Damage: To make combat less about fireballs and give weapons some actual umph, massive damage applies. Massive damage is triggerd whenever you take damage equal to or greater then your constitution score. If taken by a normal attack (such as weapon or natural weapons) you either make a fortitude save equal to damage dealt, or a default fort save of 15. Whichever is higher. Very deadly unless you rebalanced damage for the rest of the game. With this system, it's fairly easy to force Massive Damage saves at first level, and damage will greatly outstrip a creature's con score. If taken by magical means, you just make the default 15 check. Theoreticaly this means massive damage by weapons/etc will be more dangerous then damage taken by magic. It seems arbitrary that a sword through the chest is more likely to kill you that an explosion with a temperature greater than lava or having the very bonds of your molecules undone, but I'll roll with it for the moment. Still leaves me with non-magical magical means of causing Massive Damage saves, either directly or indirectly. Spells like Summon Monster, Orb of ___, Shrink Item, Splinter Bolt, Dominate Person (on the party's 2H fighter) and Telekinesis immediately come to mind without trying. Also, what happens when you would normally gain HD? And how do you handle con damage and temporary HP? This system is rather complicated to attempt to balance since you are changing such a integral part of the game. It also adds lots of additional rolls that slow down the game, and I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish with this houserule. It's a novel idea, but I don't think it plays nice with the rest of D&D's mechanics.
Puritan13 12-05-07, 12:13 AM	Not gonna bother reading the rest of your post, you used the work "tooken". We, as a nation, really need to invest more in our schools.
Aryxbez 12-05-07, 12:36 AM	Interesting idea, the thought of having hearts is kinda nifty. However if you wish to remove HP altogether, then this variant might be up your alley. The Injury (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/injury.htm) variant. I plan on using it for a fantasy western game of mine. I think it is pretty nifty, shows the idea anyone can fall in one strike, however D&D will be sure to unbalance it. As there Great Fortitude feat, and multiclassing, that people will abuse to ensure their Fort saves at the greatest possible. However the Vitality/wound system also represents well the idea that one can die from a crit.
Rustmonster 12-05-07, 09:33 AM	As was pointed out, in LoZ, a "Heart" was not on unit of health, it was actually two (or four, in the newer games. I will use two for examples) "HP". Different attacks caused different damage. An Octorok might cause only half of a heart, or one "HP", because they are weak. Then again, a huge boss monster, like Ganon, might cause three hearts woth of damage, or six "HP". It was never "one hit is always one heart". In fact, in LoZ 2, you had no hearts. You had a health bar. Weak enemies caused little damage, while strong ones cause more. Like in D&D. Really, this seems like just a reworking of your old "health bar" system. Neither that mechanic nor this one is similar to the mechanics you wish to emulate. They are rather clunky, and only serve to increase rolls. Also, there is the matter of "one damage or you die" as the only damage an attack can cause, plus the fact that even a hit may not cause damage. Stick with the HP system. It is far more similar to LoZ than this.