Help with Spotaneous Divine Casting [Archive] - Wizards Community

Help with Spotaneous Divine Casting [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Kurama Youko
11-12-04, 09:27 AM I'm making a 6th level Cleric for a up coming campaign, my DM says I can use any d20 material/manual as long as its d20. (is there anything else?)

So I want to use this variant because im a long time fan of Spontaneous over Prepare Spell casting.

So my questions are these.

Does the S.Cleric still get his extra domain spell per level per day with this variant? Or does he have to cast his domain spells with the day spells per day he normally has?

If he does get the extra spell slot per day does can he only cast that spell of that level once and must he decide which domain spell to use or prepare? is he still preparing Domain Spells ahead of time with the extra slot?

Also this is more of an opinion because there is no ruling offically on it as far as i know because of the two sources, but if I take Domain Spontaneity would I be able to expend a spell slot and turning attempt to casting again a domain spell?
DM Zoc
11-12-04, 09:49 AM I'm currently playing a spontaneous cleric, and the way I read it was that you still get a "domain slot" at each level. Basically, you have one slot at each level where you can only choose to cast one of your domain spells (though your choice as to which domain spell to cast is obviously spontaneous).

Domain spells may also be cast in regular, non-domain slots. This is to say, you know them just as you know any other spell.
z00s
11-12-04, 10:14 AM Favored Soul. Complete Warrior.

- Z
JohnSnow
11-12-04, 02:01 PM Well, Shugenjas (Oriental Adventures, Complete Divine) are spontaneous divine casters, so my group based our interpretation of the spontaneous divine casters on them.

Based on our reading of Unearthed Arcana, the cleric has spells known according to the chart on page 65. He ALSO knows his domain spells in addition.

From the spells per day chart in the PHB, the cleric can cast the number of spells given, NOT including his domain spells. However, he gets 1 extra spell per level (as explained in Unearthed Arcana, p. 64). Note that this means that a 1st level caster (for example) can cast the SAME number (2) of 1st-level spells in a day (but one does not HAVE to be a domain spell) and actually can cast one more 0-level spell (4 instead of 3).

Effectively, clerics get one more "unallocated slot" to replace their domain slot. Spontaneous divine casters should still get extra spells per day due to high wisdom. Essentially, spontaneous divine casters "swap" versatility (spells known) for even more flexibility than they normally get.

Note, a cleric would have to choose "cure spells" (or choose the Healing domain) to be able to spontaneously heal under this system.
Kurama Youko
11-12-04, 04:43 PM okay guys thanks,
I would liked it the first guys way but John your argument does seem to be a better interpretation of the rules. No offense to anyone else. I guess i'll inform my DM and hope he agrees.

Thanks alot, though doesnt this mean the Cleric gets to know more Spells than the Druid?
JohnSnow
11-12-04, 04:56 PM Thanks alot, though doesnt this mean the Cleric gets to know more Spells than the Druid?

Yes, it does, although the druid automatically knows the appropriate level summon nature's ally spell. He can use his "spells known list" for spells beyond that.

So the cleric knows one more spell of each level than the druid: both of his domain spells, versus just summon nature's ally. This means druids first response to situations tends to be to summon animals to help (which is very "druid-y" IMO).
DM Zoc
11-12-04, 04:57 PM okay guys thanks,
I would liked it the first guys way but John your argument does seem to be a better interpretation of the rules. No offense to anyone else. I guess i'll inform my DM and hope he agrees.

Thanks alot, though doesnt this mean the Cleric gets to know more Spells than the Druid?
Regardless of interpretation, yes. Taking a sixth-level character, for example, a Cleric would know two third-level spells (the domain spells) and the Druid would know only one (summon nature's ally III).

Going back to my argument for why you would still get a domains lot, you would have to look at the correlation between Cleric/Spontanous Cleric and Wizard/Sorcerer. From what I can tell, spontaneous casting is supposed to always give you more spells per day (as compared to the same number, as would be had if you give up the domain slot). From the perspective of the designers, spontaneous casting means less spells know and more spells per day, while prepared means more spells known and less spells per day.

Edit: ninja'd
While I'm being ninja'd, though, I would like to point out the Cloistered Cleric variant, as its bonus domain is worth much more to a spontaneous divine caster.
JohnSnow
11-12-04, 05:06 PM I understand the desire for more spells, and I wish I could agree with it, but Unearted Arcana says (and I'm quoting here):

"His base daily spell allotment is the same as a normal cleric's number of spells per day (not including domain spells), plus one spell per day of each spell level he can cast. For instance, a 1st-level cleric using this system can cast four 0-level spells and two 1st-level spells per day."

Taking the chart in the PHB, the 1st-level cleric's spells per day reads 3 0-level and 1+1 1st level. Meaning the 2 1st-level spells (as given in UA) is computed by taking 1 (as given in the PHB, not including the +1 domain spell) "plus one spell per day."

The tradeoff is that that extra spell doesn't HAVE to be a domain spell. And you don't have to pick and choose what spells you have available.
Kurama Youko
11-12-04, 05:52 PM So i really wouldnt need domain spontaneity feat to cast my domain spells multipule times per day just use the daily attonement of spells per day? cool.

Now I guess I come to the problem of, Spontaneous Cleric or Favored Soul. :(

from what I can tell favored soul gets more spells per day but needs a higher Cha in the longer run as while as a high Wis if he wants to force hard DC's for his spells.
DM Zoc
11-12-04, 05:58 PM I had to make that decision a little while back. What turned me off of Favored Soul was the delay in spell-casting: not getting 3rd level spells until level 6. It really depends on whether or not you want to fight at all. I chose Cloistered Cleric because I wasn't going to be using the armor/shield/weapon specialization, but if you want to fight, you would probably find them useful.
gbnogkfs
11-12-04, 08:26 PM I'm with John as well :cool:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kurama Youko 11-12-04, 09:27 AM	I'm making a 6th level Cleric for a up coming campaign, my DM says I can use any d20 material/manual as long as its d20. (is there anything else?) So I want to use this variant because im a long time fan of Spontaneous over Prepare Spell casting. So my questions are these. Does the S.Cleric still get his extra domain spell per level per day with this variant? Or does he have to cast his domain spells with the day spells per day he normally has? If he does get the extra spell slot per day does can he only cast that spell of that level once and must he decide which domain spell to use or prepare? is he still preparing Domain Spells ahead of time with the extra slot? Also this is more of an opinion because there is no ruling offically on it as far as i know because of the two sources, but if I take Domain Spontaneity would I be able to expend a spell slot and turning attempt to casting again a domain spell?
DM Zoc 11-12-04, 09:49 AM	I'm currently playing a spontaneous cleric, and the way I read it was that you still get a "domain slot" at each level. Basically, you have one slot at each level where you can only choose to cast one of your domain spells (though your choice as to which domain spell to cast is obviously spontaneous). Domain spells may also be cast in regular, non-domain slots. This is to say, you know them just as you know any other spell.
z00s 11-12-04, 10:14 AM	Favored Soul. Complete Warrior. - Z
JohnSnow 11-12-04, 02:01 PM	Well, Shugenjas (Oriental Adventures, Complete Divine) are spontaneous divine casters, so my group based our interpretation of the spontaneous divine casters on them. Based on our reading of Unearthed Arcana, the cleric has spells known according to the chart on page 65. He ALSO knows his domain spells in addition. From the spells per day chart in the PHB, the cleric can cast the number of spells given, NOT including his domain spells. However, he gets 1 extra spell per level (as explained in Unearthed Arcana, p. 64). Note that this means that a 1st level caster (for example) can cast the SAME number (2) of 1st-level spells in a day (but one does not HAVE to be a domain spell) and actually can cast one more 0-level spell (4 instead of 3). Effectively, clerics get one more "unallocated slot" to replace their domain slot. Spontaneous divine casters should still get extra spells per day due to high wisdom. Essentially, spontaneous divine casters "swap" versatility (spells known) for even more flexibility than they normally get. Note, a cleric would have to choose "cure spells" (or choose the Healing domain) to be able to spontaneously heal under this system.
Kurama Youko 11-12-04, 04:43 PM	okay guys thanks, I would liked it the first guys way but John your argument does seem to be a better interpretation of the rules. No offense to anyone else. I guess i'll inform my DM and hope he agrees. Thanks alot, though doesnt this mean the Cleric gets to know more Spells than the Druid?
JohnSnow 11-12-04, 04:56 PM	Thanks alot, though doesnt this mean the Cleric gets to know more Spells than the Druid? Yes, it does, although the druid automatically knows the appropriate level summon nature's ally spell. He can use his "spells known list" for spells beyond that. So the cleric knows one more spell of each level than the druid: both of his domain spells, versus just summon nature's ally. This means druids first response to situations tends to be to summon animals to help (which is very "druid-y" IMO).
DM Zoc 11-12-04, 04:57 PM	okay guys thanks, I would liked it the first guys way but John your argument does seem to be a better interpretation of the rules. No offense to anyone else. I guess i'll inform my DM and hope he agrees. Thanks alot, though doesnt this mean the Cleric gets to know more Spells than the Druid? Regardless of interpretation, yes. Taking a sixth-level character, for example, a Cleric would know two third-level spells (the domain spells) and the Druid would know only one (summon nature's ally III). Going back to my argument for why you would still get a domains lot, you would have to look at the correlation between Cleric/Spontanous Cleric and Wizard/Sorcerer. From what I can tell, spontaneous casting is supposed to always give you more spells per day (as compared to the same number, as would be had if you give up the domain slot). From the perspective of the designers, spontaneous casting means less spells know and more spells per day, while prepared means more spells known and less spells per day. Edit: ninja'd While I'm being ninja'd, though, I would like to point out the Cloistered Cleric variant, as its bonus domain is worth much more to a spontaneous divine caster.
JohnSnow 11-12-04, 05:06 PM	I understand the desire for more spells, and I wish I could agree with it, but Unearted Arcana says (and I'm quoting here): "His base daily spell allotment is the same as a normal cleric's number of spells per day (not including domain spells), plus one spell per day of each spell level he can cast. For instance, a 1st-level cleric using this system can cast four 0-level spells and two 1st-level spells per day." Taking the chart in the PHB, the 1st-level cleric's spells per day reads 3 0-level and 1+1 1st level. Meaning the 2 1st-level spells (as given in UA) is computed by taking 1 (as given in the PHB, not including the +1 domain spell) "plus one spell per day." The tradeoff is that that extra spell doesn't HAVE to be a domain spell. And you don't have to pick and choose what spells you have available.
Kurama Youko 11-12-04, 05:52 PM	So i really wouldnt need domain spontaneity feat to cast my domain spells multipule times per day just use the daily attonement of spells per day? cool. Now I guess I come to the problem of, Spontaneous Cleric or Favored Soul. :( from what I can tell favored soul gets more spells per day but needs a higher Cha in the longer run as while as a high Wis if he wants to force hard DC's for his spells.
DM Zoc 11-12-04, 05:58 PM	I had to make that decision a little while back. What turned me off of Favored Soul was the delay in spell-casting: not getting 3rd level spells until level 6. It really depends on whether or not you want to fight at all. I chose Cloistered Cleric because I wasn't going to be using the armor/shield/weapon specialization, but if you want to fight, you would probably find them useful.
gbnogkfs 11-12-04, 08:26 PM	I'm with John as well :cool: