Post/Author/DateTime	Post
princeofcincinnati 05-18-04, 11:04 AM	Ok so I will be using generic classes in my game to give the players freedom to create exaclty the character they want. But I'm just not happy with elminiating the old classes. Then it hits me. Why not both?The article says not to use both old classes and Generic but why not?If you do the following there should not be any problems. 1. The old classes stay the same by the book. 2.The generic classes DO NOT get the "class-like feats" such as favored enemy feat. So for instance lets compare a fighter to a warrior. The fighter and warrior both have d10 hit dice. the both have a feat at the same levels . Advantages /Disavantages The fighter is proficient in all armor and tower sheilds the warrior is not . The fighter has access to feats the Warrior does not ( weapon specialization) The warrior can pick any feat he qualifiys for and any skill. I think that given those things they are equal. Certainly being able to pick skills is a big bonus, but in order to be just like the fighter, a warrior is going to have to use feats (Heavy armor proficiency , Tower shield,etc.
Jack Daniel 05-18-04, 12:32 PM	I just created a system where all characters pick their skills. • All classes have Craft, Profession, and a number of extra class skills equal to thier skill point number plus four. • A Knowledge skill may be bought individually, or Knowledge (all skills) may be taken for the cost of two skill slots. That's it. Suddenly the fighter is pretty much the same as the warriror, the rogue works a lot like the expert, and the other classes all have that freedom in custom-tailoring their skill list.
Xeviat-DM 05-18-04, 02:49 PM	Generic classes are weaker, but they do serve as a nice comparison to re-tool the classes which seem to be unbalanced in the PHB (namely the Sorcerer and the Fighter). If you look at the class ability feat list, you'll see that these feats grow immensely in power, something that PHB feats lack the ability to do. Simply speaking, there is little to no reason to allow both generic classes and base classes in the same game. Now if you were to redesign the base classes as 10 level advanced classes, ala D20 Modern, that could be a very interesting path.
princeofcincinnati 05-18-04, 09:45 PM	Originally posted by Jack Daniel I just created a system where all characters pick their skills. • All classes have Craft, Profession, and a number of extra class skills equal to thier skill point number plus four. • A Knowledge skill may be bought individually, or Knowledge (all skills) may be taken for the cost of two skill slots. That's it. Suddenly the fighter is pretty much the same as the warriror, the rogue works a lot like the expert, and the other classes all have that freedom in custom-tailoring their skill list. But would that not unbalanced them? I mean one of the things that makes a wizard a little more lift is his knowledge (all) class skill compare to the fighter.
Boberto 05-19-04, 03:46 PM	The great thing about Wizards is their ability to have access to all forms of knowledge, mainly because it's logical with the arcane studying etc., so it kind of nerfs their strength as very intelligent indivituals if other classes have access to all knowledge (Granted Bards also have access to all forms of knowledge too, but that also is a logical idea). But back to the main idea, what typical fighter is going to know a lot about the arcane arts? Or Geography? Or History? Or Dungeoneering? Sure you could throw in a back story that might make sense for maybe one knowledge area, but knowledge skills represent devotion and great amounts of time studying because they can't be used untrained. Along with that and any check represents what your character knows currently and will always know. So if you ask me, I see a red flag of "unbalanced" the size of Texas coming from allowing typical fighters pick almost any skill. But hey, you're the DM, what you say goes so it's up to you. :whatsthis
Jack Daniel 05-19-04, 04:45 PM	Nope, because it doesn't change the number of skill points you have. It doesn't matter whether you build your fighter to be a swashbuckler with Jump, Tumble, and Bluff, or a sniper with Craft (alchemy, gunsmithy) and Hide, or even a scholar-fighter with Diplomacy and Knowledge (fighting styles, warfare & tactics). No one of these fighters any stronger than any other, because they've all spend 2 + bonus skill points to buy their skills. But the player does suddenly have perfect freedom to create any sort of character type imaginable, and that's in all ways better than what the core rules allow. Besides, it's laughable to think that you can't have a fighter who devoted lots of time to schoarly knowledge: "You've beaten my giant, which means you're exceptionally strong. So, you could have put the poison in your own goblet, trusting on your strength to save you. So I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But, you've also bested my Spaniard which means you must have studied. And in studying, you must have learned that man is mortal so you would have put the poison as far from yourself as possible, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me." ~Vizzini, The Princess Bride
Necron013 05-19-04, 08:33 PM	I like the idea that classes get whatever skills they want; but perhaps I might propose an alternative for thos opposed to the current system. Instead of totally eliminating cross-class skills, instead allow a charecter to trade a class skill for a cross-class skill per point of INT. Restircted skills could be made cross-class by the same process. This would make INT a slightly more valuble stat, but not by much.
princeofcincinnati 05-20-04, 09:34 AM	I've decided to do something very radical and include both the old classes and the generic classes. The reasons are many. You miss alot of the system as a whole when you exclude the old classes( domain spells, Hide in plain sight etc) though most of that is fixed by giving feats and such, it's too much work. Also I think they can be just as good as the old classes and stand up on thier own.
Reney 05-22-04, 06:04 AM	Can you imagine that with the Gestalt variant? :bigeyes: