Post/Author/DateTime	Post
dragonhand777 05-23-04, 09:51 PM	Do you think the fractional bonus varriant should apply to gesalt style characters? I don't think so. I feel letteing them have it is like taking a single classed character (say a rogue for example) and giving them the fractions from another class (like fighter), until the fractions added/stacked up enough to raise the intial bonuses above where they would normaly be for a single classed characer of the same level. Gesalts already get the better of both classes. (Thus my reasoning). A player in our group (who used to be the dm) believes that the varriant rule was intended for any style multiclassed character. He asked the current dm if we could use that varriant and the dm gave it the ok on the fly (so to speak). I'll be dming before too long, and I'm not sure I want to apply that varriant rule to gesalts.
riceisnice 05-23-04, 11:02 PM	How would this come up with gestalt rules? There's no adding of two different values with fractional adjustments, you just use the best one.
Pagan priest 05-24-04, 12:41 AM	It could come up in gestalt classes as soon as they reach 2nd level. The fractional bonus comes up when advancing levels. While gestalt takes the best of two, that best might still be a fractioanl advance. For example, consider a rogue/wizard gestalt at level 1/1, going to sorcerer/wizard for 2nd level. At 1st level, rogue gives a 3/4 BAB. Either sorcerer or wizard would give a 1/2 BAB. Standard rules, the character is still +0 BAB. Fractional advancement allows the character to be +1 BAB at 2nd level. I'd say that the two variants work just fine together, although there will be very few times that it would really come up. Most builds will have something that gives a good value at each level.
Marcus Majarra 05-24-04, 02:00 AM	Actually, even when allowing for fractional bonuses for gestalt characters, you never gain more than what a single-classed character would, which is a maximum of +1 BAB per level. I mean, if you allowed them, a non-gestalt Rogue 1 taking a level in Wizard would wind up at BAB +1 (0.75+0.5=1.25). A gestalt Rog1/Sor1 taking a gestalt level in Wiz/Sor would also wind up at BAB +1 (0.75+0.5=1.25). There's no difference in allowing this for gestalts moreso than non-gestalts.
squishycube 05-24-04, 07:50 AM	I totally agree with you, but your reasoning is very flawed. Just because one example points in your direction, doesn't mean it always would do so. I know in this case that it would, but you should be a bit careful about it...
dragonhand777 05-25-04, 04:16 AM	Actually, even when allowing for fractional bonuses for gestalt characters, you never gain more than what a single-classed character would, which is a maximum of +1 BAB per level. From what I can see, with my pc in a current game and a coupl of npcs I've created for a campaign I'll be dming, the difference was in saves. The average was a +1 increase, that the character wouldn't have gotten w/o using the varriant rule. I was just afraid it unbalanced the characters.
TieraStarr 05-25-04, 06:29 AM	Actually, I think using fractional base bonuses is almost a must for gestalt characters, otherwise what do you get? Lets take Ftr/Rog, then Rog/Wiz, the Wiz/Sor. What is your BAB? Using fractionals, it is easy (1 + 3/4 + 1/2 = 2¼, rounds down to 2). What about if you aren't using fractionals? Well, for first level you get +1 BAB, at second level you are gaining 2nd level rogue (increases from +0 BAB to +1 BAB, so thus +1 BAB which results in +2 BAB), at 3rd level you are gaining 2nd level Wizard, which increases from +0 BAB to +1 BAB, and thus a further +1 BAB, resulting in +3 BAB). Thus, I think fractionals are a must for gestalt characters.
Marcus Majarra 05-25-04, 06:15 PM	Originally posted by squishycube I totally agree with you, but your reasoning is very flawed. Just because one example points in your direction, doesn't mean it always would do so. I know in this case that it would, but you should be a bit careful about it... If you were referring ot my reasoning, there's nothing flawed about it. Whether you play gestalt or not, these are the only bonuses you can get for BAB and saves when you level-up. BAB +1/2 +3/4 +1 Saves +1/3 +1/2 Of course, saves have the tidbit about some of them gaining +2 1/2 at first level, but that +2 bonus is also present outside the variant ruling for fractional bonuses. I would personally house rule that you can't get this +2 bonus more than once per save. For example, a non-gestalt Clr1/Rog1 would have saves equal to: +2 5/6 (2 1/2 + 1/3) +2 5/6 (1/3 + 2 1/2) +2 5/6 (2 1/2 + 1/3) If this character were to take a monk level (Clr1/Rog1/Mnk1), the result, using my personal ruling, would be: +3 1/3 (2 1/2 + 1/3 + 1/2) +3 1/3 (1/3 + 2 1/2 + 1/2) +3 1/3 (2 1/2 + 1/3 + 1/2) If you use the normal ruling using the fractional bonus variant, you'd get: +5 1/3 (2 1/2 + 1/3 + 2 1/2) +5 1/3 (1/3 + 2 1/2 + 2 1/2) +5 1/3 (2 1/2 + 1/3 + 2 1/2) These results won't be any different for gestalt characters, since they only take the better of two classes when they level-up, as opposed to more than that.
Archtyrant Terevoth 05-31-04, 09:47 AM	Originally posted by TieraStarr Thus, I think fractionals are a must for gestalt characters. I totally agree with you. I can't see running a gestalt campaign without them. Otherwise saves and BaB get totally screwy whenever you start multiclassing.
Kintara 06-14-04, 03:48 PM	Originally posted by Archtyrant Terevoth I totally agree with you. I can't see running a gestalt campaign without them. Otherwise saves and BaB get totally screwy whenever you start multiclassing. Yeah. I'm not even sure how to do it without fractionals, if you do any significant amount of multiclassing.
Pagan priest 06-18-04, 01:16 AM	I suppose that if you just gestalt two classes, say fighter/wizard and stick with that up to 20/20, then you would not need to worry about fractional bonuses... Actually, if at each level, one of the classes has a good BAB like a fighter or ranger, then there is n o need for fractional bonuses either. It is only when you are having classes with a medium or poor BAB that you need to do the math.
flyingmoose 06-22-04, 04:30 AM	Some people need to be told that a wizard gets +1/2 BAB every level so they don't try to argue in favor of that stupid fighter/wizard 1 // sorcerer/wizard 19 build.