Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shadowfax7 04-16-06, 12:54 PM	Falling 10’ or more requires a Fort save (DC = falling damage) to prevent breaking any bones from the fall. For example, a fall of 10-19' would require a Fort save DC 1-6. A fall of 200' would require a Fort save DC 20-120. This system makes falls of 20' or less (1-2 stories) have a minimal to moderate chance of breaking a bone, but falls of over 30' have a moderate to very high chance of breaking a bone. This would put a realistic feel for falls. I have been playtesting this house rule for 1 1/2 years and it has worked good, albeit provided dangerous situations on the 2 occasions Fort saves were failed. The first time, the broken bone (a leg) required 4-6 weeks to mend (I don't allow Cure spells to mend broken bones) and the 2nd time (a wrist) it was healed by magic (Regeneration mends broken bones). What do you all think of this sytem ??
jeff-heikkinen 04-16-06, 05:01 PM	What's so special about falls, as opposed to, say, getting bashed with a mace or squeezed by a Bigby's Hand spell?
Shadowfax7 04-16-06, 05:06 PM	The fact that characters can jump down a 200' cliff and not break any bones . . . it just bothers me.
Cifer 04-16-06, 05:23 PM	Complete agreement with jeff. What exactly do you think happens when an ogre with a greatclub pounds on a fighter and brings him down all the way to -9? He is almost killed, but all his bones are intact? If you want to add ways to slow characters down, replace the hp-system ("everything above 0 is just a flesh-wound, then you fall over and die in about half a minute") completely. Try imposing penalties at certain points (half hp and 1/4 hp maybe) or make a little brother to the death-by-massive-damage rule (lose 1/4 hp in one hit -> fort save or get some penalties).
Aegeu 04-16-06, 08:46 PM	Result of these rules: Fighter falls into a pit and fails his saves. He breaks his arm, and he's not ambidextrous. He can't use any weapons effectively, and has no spellcasting ability, and therefore is relegated to walking in front so he can set off traps. Not to mention that if the cleric doesn't have regenerate, the fighter is not merely out of commission for an encounter, but is out of commission for 3 WEEKS, removing a good bit of the party's fighting ability for the WHOLE ADVNTURE and perhaps more. This will TOTALLY make the game better, right? :nonono:
Xeviat-DM 04-16-06, 11:24 PM	He's out of commision because he's now forced to wield his weapon at a -4 penalty and only gain half his str bonus to damage (what most DMs would impose as the penalty for wielding a weapon alone in your off-hand). And first off, technically a broken arm in D&D would impose a -2 penalty to all actions with the arm, as standard for circumstance penalties (the DMG supports this with the table on "damage to specific areas" early in the book). I use a modified, and specified, variation on the wound/vitality rules. Any standard HP damage is not an injury, but when you suffer a critical hit or are out of hp, you take damage to wounds (I assume you know the system since you're on the UA board and the system is in UA). Because you're fatigued when you take WP damage, which imposes a -2 penalty to str and dex (I have it impose on all scores, but that's just me) and makes it so you can't charge or run, I feel the WP/VP system accurately, and more importantly simply portrays injuries. If you want the game to be more realist, do not allow low level magic to heal WP damage; only let rest, the heal skill, and the heal spell. A broken bone may be represented by the fact that you took 10 WP damage from an attack, which will take 10 days for a normal character to recover from (this wouldn't have been a severe break). Other rules could be ability score penalties for severe injuries (being brought down to negative WP could be classified as a severe injury), and make it so ability score penalties can only be recovered when you are at full WP (so it takes longer).
Lawrence 04-17-06, 12:34 AM	I don't see anything wrong with using broken bones, but I object to not letting cure spells help heal them. Bear in mind the HP system isn't all about cuts and bruises. part of is is about glacing blows, exhaustion in battle (beyon being heavily exhausted as per the condition), the will to fight, and so on.when you hit 0, you're disabled, and at the last dregs of your ability to act. When you hit that -1, you're unconscious, and some wound on you is probably bad enough that you'll die if not treated. Then you get stability checks, which are the event that your wounds aren't severe enough to die from. blood flow slows and clots enough to avoid issues, whatever bones are broken are bruised aren't touching anything vital enough to threaten you at the time (but if you don't rest or have them dealt with, will cause you trouble in the form of lack of HP) and so on. My advise would be to take in the called shots rules from the DMG. falling damage would, most likely, cause the leg issues, more if it's a severe fall (to represent more severe bone crushing). Don't try to totally butcher the system to satisfy one issue, try augmenting first and examine. If things are totally absurd with the system as it is, then replace it. cure spells should heal the bones, but you don't have to let it restore penalties from 'broken' bones. So bruising or partial breaks (maybe from a saved on a fall or smaller falls) are still good. Only the stronger spells such as healing or regeneration will deal with broken bones, otherwise you must use a heal check combined with magical healing if you want to fix them quickly (otherwise, you let them stay out of combat for however long for the bones to recover on their own).
Shadowfax7 04-17-06, 07:05 PM	Thanx for your responses. My group and I like to play with this house rule. What I would like to know is if the DC for the Fort save is fair ?? I originally thought of DC 10 + falling damage and decided it was way too much as I want to make low falls relatively safe from breaking bones. Opinions on the DC ??
Lawrence 04-17-06, 07:48 PM	Make it a DC of 10+1 per 10 feet. In the case of jumping down and such, there's no DC involved, but as you get higher there's greater risk. Alternatively, you might let them jake a fortitude or a reflex roll depending on the situation. fortitude is more like landing and trying to make your legs into shocks, reflex would be rolling with the fall, etc. You could make it where being thrown off is somehow fortitude but any other situation (besides fort ones) are reflex. tricky business, but then the reflex would allow monks and thieves to use their evasions to lessen damage more. They're more use to falling, or so the theory goes. Mr fighter only has his armor to 'help' him. ;)
Shadowfax7 04-17-06, 08:53 PM	Make it a DC of 10+1 per 10 feet. In the case of jumping down and such, there's no DC involved, but as you get higher there's greater risk.That isn't bad. However, it does make low falls more dangerous since the minimum DC is 11. With a DC = falling damage the minimum DC for a 10' fall is 1 and max is 6,for a 20' fall it's 2 and 12, respectively. Alternatively, you might let them make a fortitude or a reflex roll depending on the situation. fortitude is more like landing and trying to make your legs into shocks, reflex would be rolling with the fall, etc. You could make it where being thrown off is somehow fortitude but any other situation (besides fort ones) are reflex.This is partially taken care of by Jump or Tumble checks made to jump down or reduce falling damage.
Lawrence 04-17-06, 09:27 PM	Okay....DC of 5+2 per 10 feet? *shrugs* I can only make so many formula's, lol.
Lina_Inverse 04-18-06, 08:31 AM	Whenever you bring physics into fantasy you prove you only cement your own inability to grasp it.
rhammill 04-18-06, 10:45 AM	I do this a little differently, to maintain the abstract nature of the rules to avoid specific injuries like a broken arm that prevents a player from fighting at all. I actually use a modified version of the vitality/wound concept, but here's a modified version for use with hit points only. Any time somebody takes a critical hit, there is a possibility that they may be injured. This also applies to things such as falling. For every 40 feet a person falls, there is a critical threat. Roll for criticals normally. In the case of falling I would suggest the critical attack is against a character's touch AC with a +1 to hit per 40 feet of the fall. If a critical is scored the character is injured and is disabled (as the condition) until the injury is healed. An injury takes 1d20 days to heal naturally. In my campaign healing an injury requires higher level magic to heal than just hit points. In addition, if a person is injured there is a permanent loss of 2d4 hit points. From my standpoint, the basic idea is that a major injury takes a lot longer to heal, and should have some impact on the PC until it heals. Disabling a PC is pretty tough, since they will take additional damage each time they do something strenuous. Rest and healing become more important, and low-level characters may save the better potions of healing for situations like this, if they don't have the spells capable of healing them yet. In turn, this should also make them think a little more about their actions, both in combat and out. Randy
theblindman 04-19-06, 03:38 PM	This is definitely a blank-spot in the rules, but there are a couple issues with your particular solution. Most of them have already been pointed out, but what I think is really weird is that if you fail your save, there's no difference between falling 20 feet and falling 200 feet. Brad the Elf falls into a 20 ft. pit-trap and takes 7 points of damage. He rolls a 3 on his fortitude save and breaks, let's say, his arm. Brad the Elf is scaling the side of a mountain when he trips and plummets 200 ft., taking some, I dunno, 60 points of damage. He rolls a 19 on his save, but that's still a failure and he breaks his arm again. There's no way under your rules to account for the fact that a 200 ft. drop would fracture more than just your arm (or leg, or whatever). Then again, that's what the death from massive damage rules are for, but even so let's say it had been 49 points of damage... That's weird.
Shadowfax7 04-19-06, 09:25 PM	but what I think is really weird is that if you fail your save, there's no difference between falling 20 feet and falling 200 feet.As you pointed out there is the Death from Massive Damage rule (which only comes into play after 80'), but also much more hp damage from falling a much higher distance. But what I didn't post is that I use a hit location die (a d12 made specifically for hit locations in another system) and 4 facets are right/left legs, 2 are right/left arms, 4 torso, 1 head and 1 DM's choice. It's the last I would use for multiple fractures. Now this solution to the problem you pointed out obviously requires DM participation, not just the die roll.
Sae Cael Oanar 04-23-06, 10:00 PM	if you are going to implement this i also suggest that tumble should be able to stop all damage with a successful check. the check could maybe be 15+x for each of ten feet or maybe 20+x. as far as reality is concerned, there are people who can drop forty feet and roll and sustain no damage. people have fallen 20,000 feet, and i think there might have been a stewardess who fell 30,000 feet, and they've sustained little injury.