House rule: Hit points [Archive] - Wizards Community

House rule: Hit points [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
polt
10-09-05, 06:40 AM I know this may be the wrong forum, but I've tried in the house rule forum and got no replies at all.

Anyway. I've been pretty unhappy with the Hit Points system, so I'm looking into a couple of variant systems.

But now I've found the Damage Save system, used in True20 and Mutants & Masterminds (maybe in more), and I think it's a pretty cool way of doing combat.

Has anyone played games with the damage save system? What were the consequences? Faster combat? Slower? More random? More dangerous? More fun? Less fun?

What did it do for combat?
Radkres
10-09-05, 09:08 AM Can I ask what you don't like about the Hit Point system?
polt
10-09-05, 09:12 AM When you are lvl 15 and have a billion HPs, combat's only dangerous in the end of the fight where everyone has taken so many hits they are low on HP.

A combat is just a matter of who's HP runs out the fastest.
Straylight
10-09-05, 09:32 AM I'm not familiar with the True20 damage system, but another alternative you might try (if you don't mind making combat faster and quite a bit more deadly) is the Vitality/Wound sytem introduced in Star Wars D20 and later refurbished for Unearthed Arcana.

I've played with using it in Eberron a bit, and it seems to fit the style of the world very well: fast, furious action where a mistake or a lucky shot by an enemy can spell doom for a character.

The downside to the system is that it was designed for use in a world where guns are the primary means of combat. In SWD20, most weapons are extremely heavy damage compared to D&D (your basic blaster pistol does 3d6 damage, Han's DL-44 does 3d8+3), and some of them can get absolutely rediculous (a lightsaber in the hands of a high-level Jedi Guardian can be doing something like 10d8+STR per hit), but most of them have a very low threat range and magical enhancement to-hit doesn't exist.

UA refined the VP/WP system to work a little better with D&D, and you can find complete details there. It still isn't perfect, though, since it tends to even out weapons a little too much for my taste (a longsword and a battleaxe are identical weapons in terms of statline in this system, for example).

It'll never be as elegant or as easy to use as the basic HP system, but if you're willing to put a little more work into tracking damage and healing, then you might want to give it a try.
polt
10-09-05, 09:36 AM I actually already use the VP / Wound system, and I actually think it makes combat a little slower? Since basically everyone gets a little more HP. And crits are still rpetty rare.
Gene2324
10-09-05, 01:00 PM Actually, using the VP/Wounds system everyone has the same hitpoints as normal. Once they run out(and begin dipping into Wound Points) they are considered unconsious and dying. Plus when getting criticalled by a frost giant with a great axe, even the 15th level fighter prays for 1s. I use it in my campaign and the players get a kick out of killing monsters by critting them as I get really colorful with the description of how the monster dies.

-Gene
polt
10-09-05, 01:05 PM I know how the system works, I said I was using it :)

But still, I think it tends to make combat a little slower.
Gene2324
10-09-05, 01:43 PM Might I ask how it makes combat go slower seeing as how the only extra thing it adds are wound points instead of the normal -10 and you're dead rule?
polt
10-09-05, 01:45 PM Basically it just gives you con extra hit points, which for a wizard might be 10 extra hit points, which is kind of a lot.
Temrek
10-09-05, 01:53 PM I use a variant of the Wounds/Vitality system, most notable differences: Characters die when they have 0 wounds left, this means that a character with 10 constitution after they take exactly the same amount of damage as they would have in the hp system unless they suffer criticals. Rolling a natural 1 on a reflex save is very bad, you have to roll another reflex save against the same DC then and if you succed on the second roll it was just a regular failure, if you fail however all the damage is done directly to wounds.

Falling damage is taken directly to wounds also, one can do a reflex save (DC: 6) to convert 1d6 of the wound damage to vitality damage + an additional d6 for every 3 you beat the DC by.
Verelor
10-09-05, 04:02 PM Wait...let's go back to that damage save system. I really like the sound of it? Where can i find it? Does it have rules for converting regular Hit Poitns and HD? If so, I'm in. Anything that speeds up something but doesn't dumb it doen is for me.
polt
10-09-05, 04:09 PM It's in the Mutants & Masterminds source book, and in the True20 book. Both books are from Green Ronin.

I think the True20 books is a 13$ PDF, defenitely a system worth keeping an eye on. It's lacking a bit now, need some beta testing, but some of the stuff is great.
Verelor
10-09-05, 11:32 PM Aww crud...So it isn't postable Open Game Content?
lostone
10-10-05, 08:31 AM A combat is just a matter of who's HP runs out the fastest.That's a rather limited point of view. There are plenty of other ways to kill someone: energy drain, ability damage/drain, death spells, and more. And then you could also use spells to dominate them (and walk off a cliff into a volcano or other bad place), make them go to sleep (and coup de grace them), etc. Besides, you ever see a frenzied berserker going at it? They deal out 300 hit points of damage a round, and can keep fighting long after they "run out of hit points".

Don't think of it as simply being able to take more hits than is reasonable, think of it as a veteran hero's ability to shrug off minor hits and roll with the bigger hits so that they aren't wounded as badly, and to fight through the pain. The green recruit wouldn't roll with a bigger hit and instead loses his head or gets impaled.
Stainawarjar
10-10-05, 09:34 AM I think the damage system of Games Workshop's Inquisitor is the most realistic one I've seen this far. Essentialy, it's separate hit points for different parts of the body, with effects based on how much damage you take to said parts. Getting hit in the arm probably won't kill you, while a hit in the crotch is a sure way to go unconscious.

However, this damage system is horribly complicated and would take some work and imagination to convert to d20. I'd like to try it once though.
polt
10-10-05, 10:15 AM It's not that I want more realism, but it just seems like the Damage Save system is a much more fun and much better system.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
polt 10-09-05, 06:40 AM	I know this may be the wrong forum, but I've tried in the house rule forum and got no replies at all. Anyway. I've been pretty unhappy with the Hit Points system, so I'm looking into a couple of variant systems. But now I've found the Damage Save system, used in True20 and Mutants & Masterminds (maybe in more), and I think it's a pretty cool way of doing combat. Has anyone played games with the damage save system? What were the consequences? Faster combat? Slower? More random? More dangerous? More fun? Less fun? What did it do for combat?
Radkres 10-09-05, 09:08 AM	Can I ask what you don't like about the Hit Point system?
polt 10-09-05, 09:12 AM	When you are lvl 15 and have a billion HPs, combat's only dangerous in the end of the fight where everyone has taken so many hits they are low on HP. A combat is just a matter of who's HP runs out the fastest.
Straylight 10-09-05, 09:32 AM	I'm not familiar with the True20 damage system, but another alternative you might try (if you don't mind making combat faster and quite a bit more deadly) is the Vitality/Wound sytem introduced in Star Wars D20 and later refurbished for Unearthed Arcana. I've played with using it in Eberron a bit, and it seems to fit the style of the world very well: fast, furious action where a mistake or a lucky shot by an enemy can spell doom for a character. The downside to the system is that it was designed for use in a world where guns are the primary means of combat. In SWD20, most weapons are extremely heavy damage compared to D&D (your basic blaster pistol does 3d6 damage, Han's DL-44 does 3d8+3), and some of them can get absolutely rediculous (a lightsaber in the hands of a high-level Jedi Guardian can be doing something like 10d8+STR per hit), but most of them have a very low threat range and magical enhancement to-hit doesn't exist. UA refined the VP/WP system to work a little better with D&D, and you can find complete details there. It still isn't perfect, though, since it tends to even out weapons a little too much for my taste (a longsword and a battleaxe are identical weapons in terms of statline in this system, for example). It'll never be as elegant or as easy to use as the basic HP system, but if you're willing to put a little more work into tracking damage and healing, then you might want to give it a try.
polt 10-09-05, 09:36 AM	I actually already use the VP / Wound system, and I actually think it makes combat a little slower? Since basically everyone gets a little more HP. And crits are still rpetty rare.
Gene2324 10-09-05, 01:00 PM	Actually, using the VP/Wounds system everyone has the same hitpoints as normal. Once they run out(and begin dipping into Wound Points) they are considered unconsious and dying. Plus when getting criticalled by a frost giant with a great axe, even the 15th level fighter prays for 1s. I use it in my campaign and the players get a kick out of killing monsters by critting them as I get really colorful with the description of how the monster dies. -Gene
polt 10-09-05, 01:05 PM	I know how the system works, I said I was using it :) But still, I think it tends to make combat a little slower.
Gene2324 10-09-05, 01:43 PM	Might I ask how it makes combat go slower seeing as how the only extra thing it adds are wound points instead of the normal -10 and you're dead rule?
polt 10-09-05, 01:45 PM	Basically it just gives you con extra hit points, which for a wizard might be 10 extra hit points, which is kind of a lot.
Temrek 10-09-05, 01:53 PM	I use a variant of the Wounds/Vitality system, most notable differences: Characters die when they have 0 wounds left, this means that a character with 10 constitution after they take exactly the same amount of damage as they would have in the hp system unless they suffer criticals. Rolling a natural 1 on a reflex save is very bad, you have to roll another reflex save against the same DC then and if you succed on the second roll it was just a regular failure, if you fail however all the damage is done directly to wounds. Falling damage is taken directly to wounds also, one can do a reflex save (DC: 6) to convert 1d6 of the wound damage to vitality damage + an additional d6 for every 3 you beat the DC by.
Verelor 10-09-05, 04:02 PM	Wait...let's go back to that damage save system. I really like the sound of it? Where can i find it? Does it have rules for converting regular Hit Poitns and HD? If so, I'm in. Anything that speeds up something but doesn't dumb it doen is for me.
polt 10-09-05, 04:09 PM	It's in the Mutants & Masterminds source book, and in the True20 book. Both books are from Green Ronin. I think the True20 books is a 13$ PDF, defenitely a system worth keeping an eye on. It's lacking a bit now, need some beta testing, but some of the stuff is great.
Verelor 10-09-05, 11:32 PM	Aww crud...So it isn't postable Open Game Content?
lostone 10-10-05, 08:31 AM	A combat is just a matter of who's HP runs out the fastest.That's a rather limited point of view. There are plenty of other ways to kill someone: energy drain, ability damage/drain, death spells, and more. And then you could also use spells to dominate them (and walk off a cliff into a volcano or other bad place), make them go to sleep (and coup de grace them), etc. Besides, you ever see a frenzied berserker going at it? They deal out 300 hit points of damage a round, and can keep fighting long after they "run out of hit points". Don't think of it as simply being able to take more hits than is reasonable, think of it as a veteran hero's ability to shrug off minor hits and roll with the bigger hits so that they aren't wounded as badly, and to fight through the pain. The green recruit wouldn't roll with a bigger hit and instead loses his head or gets impaled.
Stainawarjar 10-10-05, 09:34 AM	I think the damage system of Games Workshop's Inquisitor is the most realistic one I've seen this far. Essentialy, it's separate hit points for different parts of the body, with effects based on how much damage you take to said parts. Getting hit in the arm probably won't kill you, while a hit in the crotch is a sure way to go unconscious. However, this damage system is horribly complicated and would take some work and imagination to convert to d20. I'd like to try it once though.
polt 10-10-05, 10:15 AM	It's not that I want more realism, but it just seems like the Damage Save system is a much more fun and much better system.