House rules for alter self and polymorph. [Archive] - Wizards Community

House rules for alter self and polymorph. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Leewei
09-21-05, 01:20 PM Having read the articles about alter self, polymorph and other similar abilities, I feel that there is still great room for improvement in order to make these effects more intuitive to use as well as less prone to abuse.

There are four areas where I see the need for improvement:

1) Natural Armor abuse.
2) Immunity abuse.
3) Uselessness for disguise on high-HD creatures.
4) Loss of Low-light Vision or Darkvision abilities.

Here's what I propose:
1) Allow Natural Armor gains per alter self, however limit the Natural Armor gain to +5 or +10 for polymorph. The Natural Armor bonus is considered an Enhancement bonus.

2) Immunity to non-energy effects work as normal. If the Type or Subtype confers energy resistance or immunity, the effect becomes energy resistance with a limit of 10 for alter self, 20 for polymorph. Any of the new form's energy resistance is gained up to this limit. The Subtype is not gained unless the original form had the Subtype (i.e. a red dragon turning into a fire elemental would keep the Fire Subtype).

3) Either spell can instead be used for cosmetic changes granting a +10 to Disguise skill. The creature keeps all extraordinary qualities, as well as its own Race, Type and Subtypes, even if the creature's base HD exceeds the limit of the spell.

4) Low-light Vision (but not Darkvision, Blindsense, Blindsight, etc.) is considered a natural quality and so is gained when a character polymorphs into a form with this ability. Furthermore, any extraordinary qualities shared by the base form and the assumed form are not lost. This means a druid Wild Shaping into an owl won't be crashing into trees at night.
urukar
09-21-05, 01:51 PM I agree that both Alter Self and Polymorph need significant work, as do effects (such as Wild Shape) that are based on these spells.

For alter self, your proposal is good, except that I would base the max Natural armor gain on caster level (similar to barkskin).

For polymorph, I feel that access to incredible physical stats is also a problem. I think that the max gain to Nat armor, and the max total stat increase, should vary with caster level (CL). I'm not proposing that we ban a form based on it's statistics, just that we limit the stat modifications.

I also agree that all of the bonuses (Nat armor and physical stats) should be enhancement bonuses, to avoid stacking with other buff spells.

One additional pet peeve of mine - I feel that natural "senses" of creatures should be acquired by a Wildshaped Druid (scent, low light vision, blindsight for a bat or porpoise).

So to be clear:
Alter self: As you propose, but max Nat armor increase is 1+(CL/3), Max 5
Polymorph: As you propose, except max Nat armor increase is (CL/2), Max total shift in physical stats is (CL), and the max increase in any one stat is (CL/2).
Wildshape: same as polymorph, except purely sensorary extraordinary abilities are obtained.
Leewei
09-21-05, 03:40 PM Thanks! I agree with the physical stats idea as well, now that you point it out.
urukar
09-21-05, 05:29 PM Another option would be to allow Polymorph to make free-form changes, rather than taking a specific form. The number and magnitude of the changes could be base on CL. For example, the spell grants a number of "option points" equal to the CL.

Available options (cost)
Natural Armor Enhancement bonus (1 option point per +1 bonus)
Enhancement bonus to Physical Attribute (1 per +1 bonus)
Size increase (2 per size increase, size increase grants +2 size bonus to STR & -2 penality to DEX)
Size decrease (1 per size decrease, +2 Dex, -2 STR)
Fly speed 30, average manuverability (2 points)
Fly speed 60, good manuverability (4 points)
Climb speed (= 1/2 land speed, 1 point)
Natural attacks - bite (1 point)
Natural attacks - 2 claws (2 points)

These are just intended as examples - an exhaustive list could be significantly longer. Obviously multiple castings of Polymorph would replace the previous effect, so you could not use polyporph 3 times to pump your Natural armor, STR and DEX all by your CL. You could let the caster make a disguise check (with a +10 bonus) to imitate the appearence of any specific creature.

This version has the advantage that the player does not need to search through the monster manuals for suitable forms. It also avoids the spell becoming (gasp) even more powerful every time a new monster is introduced. Some will say that a familarity rule solves that problem, but I think that a character with significant knowledge skills may know about creatures he has not seen.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Leewei 09-21-05, 01:20 PM	Having read the articles about alter self, polymorph and other similar abilities, I feel that there is still great room for improvement in order to make these effects more intuitive to use as well as less prone to abuse. There are four areas where I see the need for improvement: 1) Natural Armor abuse. 2) Immunity abuse. 3) Uselessness for disguise on high-HD creatures. 4) Loss of Low-light Vision or Darkvision abilities. Here's what I propose: 1) Allow Natural Armor gains per alter self, however limit the Natural Armor gain to +5 or +10 for polymorph. The Natural Armor bonus is considered an Enhancement bonus. 2) Immunity to non-energy effects work as normal. If the Type or Subtype confers energy resistance or immunity, the effect becomes energy resistance with a limit of 10 for alter self, 20 for polymorph. Any of the new form's energy resistance is gained up to this limit. The Subtype is not gained unless the original form had the Subtype (i.e. a red dragon turning into a fire elemental would keep the Fire Subtype). 3) Either spell can instead be used for cosmetic changes granting a +10 to Disguise skill. The creature keeps all extraordinary qualities, as well as its own Race, Type and Subtypes, even if the creature's base HD exceeds the limit of the spell. 4) Low-light Vision (but not Darkvision, Blindsense, Blindsight, etc.) is considered a natural quality and so is gained when a character polymorphs into a form with this ability. Furthermore, any extraordinary qualities shared by the base form and the assumed form are not lost. This means a druid Wild Shaping into an owl won't be crashing into trees at night.
urukar 09-21-05, 01:51 PM	I agree that both Alter Self and Polymorph need significant work, as do effects (such as Wild Shape) that are based on these spells. For alter self, your proposal is good, except that I would base the max Natural armor gain on caster level (similar to barkskin). For polymorph, I feel that access to incredible physical stats is also a problem. I think that the max gain to Nat armor, and the max total stat increase, should vary with caster level (CL). I'm not proposing that we ban a form based on it's statistics, just that we limit the stat modifications. I also agree that all of the bonuses (Nat armor and physical stats) should be enhancement bonuses, to avoid stacking with other buff spells. One additional pet peeve of mine - I feel that natural "senses" of creatures should be acquired by a Wildshaped Druid (scent, low light vision, blindsight for a bat or porpoise). So to be clear: Alter self: As you propose, but max Nat armor increase is 1+(CL/3), Max 5 Polymorph: As you propose, except max Nat armor increase is (CL/2), Max total shift in physical stats is (CL), and the max increase in any one stat is (CL/2). Wildshape: same as polymorph, except purely sensorary extraordinary abilities are obtained.
Leewei 09-21-05, 03:40 PM	Thanks! I agree with the physical stats idea as well, now that you point it out.
urukar 09-21-05, 05:29 PM	Another option would be to allow Polymorph to make free-form changes, rather than taking a specific form. The number and magnitude of the changes could be base on CL. For example, the spell grants a number of "option points" equal to the CL. Available options (cost) Natural Armor Enhancement bonus (1 option point per +1 bonus) Enhancement bonus to Physical Attribute (1 per +1 bonus) Size increase (2 per size increase, size increase grants +2 size bonus to STR & -2 penality to DEX) Size decrease (1 per size decrease, +2 Dex, -2 STR) Fly speed 30, average manuverability (2 points) Fly speed 60, good manuverability (4 points) Climb speed (= 1/2 land speed, 1 point) Natural attacks - bite (1 point) Natural attacks - 2 claws (2 points) These are just intended as examples - an exhaustive list could be significantly longer. Obviously multiple castings of Polymorph would replace the previous effect, so you could not use polyporph 3 times to pump your Natural armor, STR and DEX all by your CL. You could let the caster make a disguise check (with a +10 bonus) to imitate the appearence of any specific creature. This version has the advantage that the player does not need to search through the monster manuals for suitable forms. It also avoids the spell becoming (gasp) even more powerful every time a new monster is introduced. Some will say that a familarity rule solves that problem, but I think that a character with significant knowledge skills may know about creatures he has not seen.