How do Gestalts work with multiclassing? [Archive] - Wizards Community

How do Gestalts work with multiclassing? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
FrostHammer
03-10-07, 02:16 AM I've always been confused as to how you multi-class in a gestalt system. I'm assuming you have to meet the prerequesites for both PRCs.

I'm especially confused about something like...druid/sorcerer multiclassing into ur-priest/arcane hierophant. I'm just confused about gestalts in general I guess.
Janus Rook
03-10-07, 03:03 AM multi-classing in gestalt is the same as normal multi-classing. Except instead of Wizard2/barbarian2 you can do Wizard/Bard 2// Barbarian/Rogue 2.

Prestige classes work similar, you must meet the prereqs for it. Bab, skills, etc. just like you normally would, however gestalt does this a little different; only one prestige class at a time.

Therefore you couldn't take a level as Ur-Priest/Arcane Hierophant but you could do Ur-Priest/Druid or Arcane Hierophant/Druid.
strenoth
03-10-07, 03:36 PM as another example, say you had a gestalt character who was going to become an Arcane Archer.

You would likely take 5 leevels of gestalted ranger and (wizard or sorcerer), I liek sorc flavor wise so I'll use that. This is easiest written as

ranger5//sorcerer5

at 6th level, you take Arcane Archer, and like any smart caster, you keepyoru spellcasting progression, so you are now a

ranger5/Arcane Archer1 // Sorcerer6

at 15th level you'd be a Ranger5/arcane archer10//Sorcerer 15. Hey look, in gestalt, you can actually use Imbue Arrows for useful stuff! >.> *ahem* sorry for that little side tangent. :D
Eldritch_Lord
03-11-07, 02:20 PM With gestalt, how do "+1 spellcasting" PrCs work? Say you have a Rog6//Sor6 and you qualify for Arcane Trickster. Could you advance to Rog6/AT1 // Sor7 and have the spellcasting of a 8th level sorc (Sor7 + AT1)?

Edit: Also, could you do something cheesy like Sor3//Sor3 for double the power at a given level? I'm hoping you can't do either of these, but I want to be prepared if (and probably when) someone in my group brings up gestalting.
Travis_UI
03-20-07, 06:20 PM I'm bumping this on account of being curious about the answer myself.
The_Basilisk
03-20-07, 06:28 PM when two classes have a feature that overlaps, you simply take the best one. Taking a level in sorc and a +1 spellcaster level, you would go up in 1 level of sorc, as they both mean the same thing. being a gestalt sorc/sorc would be useless, you would be a single classes sorcerer. You COULD however be a wizard/sorcerer and have two spells lists and a lot of spells.
Doleth
03-20-07, 06:46 PM With gestalt, how do "+1 spellcasting" PrCs work? Say you have a Rog6//Sor6 and you qualify for Arcane Trickster. Could you advance to Rog6/AT1 // Sor7 and have the spellcasting of a 8th level sorc (Sor7 + AT1)?

Edit: Also, could you do something cheesy like Sor3//Sor3 for double the power at a given level? I'm hoping you can't do either of these, but I want to be prepared if (and probably when) someone in my group brings up gestalting.

If I got it right the answer to the first question is no and the second is not really. Since Gestal character take the better of the two class features when they overlap, a Sor3//Sor3(if you can take the same class twice, but I'm pretty sure you can't) can at best cast twice as many spell, providing he took all the same spell. He's casting like two level 3 sorcerer who can't both cast in the same round, not like a level 6 sorcerer. So the +1 spellcasting is the same feature as gaining a level in the actual class, so this feature is only useful when both your class are caster. For exemple, if you are a Cleric//Sorcerer 5 and you take some sort of divine spellcaster prestige class, the +1 spellcasting is only useful if you do something like Cleric 5/Divine PrC 10/Sorc15. This is how I understand it and I'm pretty sure that is how gestal work, but I could be horribly wrong.

P.S. : Doh, The_Basilisk has beat me to it.
Mitsukai_sama
03-22-07, 12:03 AM I should also like to add that typically "hybrid" presitge classes (Arcane Trickster, Eldritch Knight, etc) are usually banned in Gestalt, because they effectively do the same thing as taking two class levels at once anyway. My group and I are playtesting this in more depth.
unfortunate_crow
03-24-07, 03:51 PM So...it would look something like this?

1. Fighter//Sorcerer
2. Fighter//Sorcerer
3. Fighter//Sorcerer
4. Fighter//Sorcerer
5. Fighter//Sorcerer
6. Fighter//Abjurant Champion
7. Fighter//Abjurant Champion
8. Fighter//Abjurant Champion
9. Fighter//Abjurant Champion
10. Fighter//Abjurant Champion
11. Exotic Weapon Master//Sorcerer
12. Exotic Weapon Master//Sorcerer

...and so on???? (With no two Prestige Classes at one time? Is this written somewhere?)

Why would PrC's that combine two classes (like Eldritch Knight) be banned? Isn't that what you're doing anyways?
Dark Moon Dragyn
04-01-07, 10:19 PM If I'm not mistaken, which I could be when it comes to Gestalt, they aren't exactly banned. They lose their effectiveness because of the fact that you are combining two classes into one so they aren't as appealing to a gestalt character as they would be to a normal character.

Right now I'm running a gestalt campaign, and let's just say this will most likely be the only one I run. You need to have a tight group of players that you trust won't completely abuse the system. I have to think ahead to what's going to happen once they prestige out, because the way they are wreaking havoc in my game it won't be very soon until they want to either multi-class or go into a prestige class.

Once I dig through the boards and UA more I will repost on this issue with a more definitive answer.
Jindy
04-03-07, 01:28 PM The UA places limits on Gestalt. It specifically says no more than 1 prc at a time, and it specifically says that the GM should prohibit prcs that are essentially combinations of two base classes (and specifically says no to mystic theurge, arcane trickster, and eldritch knight).

I hope that answers the prohibited question.

Otherwise, it'd have been fun to do a wiz/arcane trickster/rogue.
Mookie37
04-10-07, 02:08 PM So I guess that would rule out a Crusader/Jade Pheonix Mage//Wizard, huh?
Jindy
04-10-07, 02:34 PM That'd be up to your DM... if memory serves, the Jade Pheonix alternated from wizard and sublime way class features (unlike the arcane trickster which gave both at the same time). You might be able to convince your DM to allow you to do that mix, so long as you alternated Crusader and Wizard levels so there was no doubling up with the Jade Phoenix (so Jade Pheonix lvl with spell casting shared with Crusader lvl, not Wizard).

Why Crusader though? Warblade or Swordsage seems a better choice (Swordsage because it has access to the Desert manuevers that you need to do the Phoenix, if I remember right) and Warblade because the abilities work off of Int, as do the spells for the wizard.
Mookie37
04-10-07, 04:05 PM While Desert Wind is cool, it's fairly weak (fire, the most resisted element), and while WB has the Int synergy Crusasder has the Devoted Spirit Maneuvers that are also used int the PRC, and I really like DS.

Also, I'm the DM, so I guess it would be MY call, if it ever happened. More of a hypothetical.
bartleby42
04-11-07, 01:58 AM Sometimes I think I should do a FAQ so that on any given week only one multiclassing/gestalt thread pops up, as opposed to the usual seven.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
FrostHammer 03-10-07, 02:16 AM	I've always been confused as to how you multi-class in a gestalt system. I'm assuming you have to meet the prerequesites for both PRCs. I'm especially confused about something like...druid/sorcerer multiclassing into ur-priest/arcane hierophant. I'm just confused about gestalts in general I guess.
Janus Rook 03-10-07, 03:03 AM	multi-classing in gestalt is the same as normal multi-classing. Except instead of Wizard2/barbarian2 you can do Wizard/Bard 2// Barbarian/Rogue 2. Prestige classes work similar, you must meet the prereqs for it. Bab, skills, etc. just like you normally would, however gestalt does this a little different; only one prestige class at a time. Therefore you couldn't take a level as Ur-Priest/Arcane Hierophant but you could do Ur-Priest/Druid or Arcane Hierophant/Druid.
strenoth 03-10-07, 03:36 PM	as another example, say you had a gestalt character who was going to become an Arcane Archer. You would likely take 5 leevels of gestalted ranger and (wizard or sorcerer), I liek sorc flavor wise so I'll use that. This is easiest written as ranger5//sorcerer5 at 6th level, you take Arcane Archer, and like any smart caster, you keepyoru spellcasting progression, so you are now a ranger5/Arcane Archer1 // Sorcerer6 at 15th level you'd be a Ranger5/arcane archer10//Sorcerer 15. Hey look, in gestalt, you can actually use Imbue Arrows for useful stuff! >.> ahem sorry for that little side tangent. :D
Eldritch_Lord 03-11-07, 02:20 PM	With gestalt, how do "+1 spellcasting" PrCs work? Say you have a Rog6//Sor6 and you qualify for Arcane Trickster. Could you advance to Rog6/AT1 // Sor7 and have the spellcasting of a 8th level sorc (Sor7 + AT1)? Edit: Also, could you do something cheesy like Sor3//Sor3 for double the power at a given level? I'm hoping you can't do either of these, but I want to be prepared if (and probably when) someone in my group brings up gestalting.
Travis_UI 03-20-07, 06:20 PM	I'm bumping this on account of being curious about the answer myself.
The_Basilisk 03-20-07, 06:28 PM	when two classes have a feature that overlaps, you simply take the best one. Taking a level in sorc and a +1 spellcaster level, you would go up in 1 level of sorc, as they both mean the same thing. being a gestalt sorc/sorc would be useless, you would be a single classes sorcerer. You COULD however be a wizard/sorcerer and have two spells lists and a lot of spells.
Doleth 03-20-07, 06:46 PM	With gestalt, how do "+1 spellcasting" PrCs work? Say you have a Rog6//Sor6 and you qualify for Arcane Trickster. Could you advance to Rog6/AT1 // Sor7 and have the spellcasting of a 8th level sorc (Sor7 + AT1)? Edit: Also, could you do something cheesy like Sor3//Sor3 for double the power at a given level? I'm hoping you can't do either of these, but I want to be prepared if (and probably when) someone in my group brings up gestalting. If I got it right the answer to the first question is no and the second is not really. Since Gestal character take the better of the two class features when they overlap, a Sor3//Sor3(if you can take the same class twice, but I'm pretty sure you can't) can at best cast twice as many spell, providing he took all the same spell. He's casting like two level 3 sorcerer who can't both cast in the same round, not like a level 6 sorcerer. So the +1 spellcasting is the same feature as gaining a level in the actual class, so this feature is only useful when both your class are caster. For exemple, if you are a Cleric//Sorcerer 5 and you take some sort of divine spellcaster prestige class, the +1 spellcasting is only useful if you do something like Cleric 5/Divine PrC 10/Sorc15. This is how I understand it and I'm pretty sure that is how gestal work, but I could be horribly wrong. P.S. : Doh, The_Basilisk has beat me to it.
Mitsukai_sama 03-22-07, 12:03 AM	I should also like to add that typically "hybrid" presitge classes (Arcane Trickster, Eldritch Knight, etc) are usually banned in Gestalt, because they effectively do the same thing as taking two class levels at once anyway. My group and I are playtesting this in more depth.
unfortunate_crow 03-24-07, 03:51 PM	So...it would look something like this? 1. Fighter//Sorcerer 2. Fighter//Sorcerer 3. Fighter//Sorcerer 4. Fighter//Sorcerer 5. Fighter//Sorcerer 6. Fighter//Abjurant Champion 7. Fighter//Abjurant Champion 8. Fighter//Abjurant Champion 9. Fighter//Abjurant Champion 10. Fighter//Abjurant Champion 11. Exotic Weapon Master//Sorcerer 12. Exotic Weapon Master//Sorcerer ...and so on???? (With no two Prestige Classes at one time? Is this written somewhere?) Why would PrC's that combine two classes (like Eldritch Knight) be banned? Isn't that what you're doing anyways?
Dark Moon Dragyn 04-01-07, 10:19 PM	If I'm not mistaken, which I could be when it comes to Gestalt, they aren't exactly banned. They lose their effectiveness because of the fact that you are combining two classes into one so they aren't as appealing to a gestalt character as they would be to a normal character. Right now I'm running a gestalt campaign, and let's just say this will most likely be the only one I run. You need to have a tight group of players that you trust won't completely abuse the system. I have to think ahead to what's going to happen once they prestige out, because the way they are wreaking havoc in my game it won't be very soon until they want to either multi-class or go into a prestige class. Once I dig through the boards and UA more I will repost on this issue with a more definitive answer.
Jindy 04-03-07, 01:28 PM	The UA places limits on Gestalt. It specifically says no more than 1 prc at a time, and it specifically says that the GM should prohibit prcs that are essentially combinations of two base classes (and specifically says no to mystic theurge, arcane trickster, and eldritch knight). I hope that answers the prohibited question. Otherwise, it'd have been fun to do a wiz/arcane trickster/rogue.
Mookie37 04-10-07, 02:08 PM	So I guess that would rule out a Crusader/Jade Pheonix Mage//Wizard, huh?
Jindy 04-10-07, 02:34 PM	That'd be up to your DM... if memory serves, the Jade Pheonix alternated from wizard and sublime way class features (unlike the arcane trickster which gave both at the same time). You might be able to convince your DM to allow you to do that mix, so long as you alternated Crusader and Wizard levels so there was no doubling up with the Jade Phoenix (so Jade Pheonix lvl with spell casting shared with Crusader lvl, not Wizard). Why Crusader though? Warblade or Swordsage seems a better choice (Swordsage because it has access to the Desert manuevers that you need to do the Phoenix, if I remember right) and Warblade because the abilities work off of Int, as do the spells for the wizard.
Mookie37 04-10-07, 04:05 PM	While Desert Wind is cool, it's fairly weak (fire, the most resisted element), and while WB has the Int synergy Crusasder has the Devoted Spirit Maneuvers that are also used int the PRC, and I really like DS. Also, I'm the DM, so I guess it would be MY call, if it ever happened. More of a hypothetical.
bartleby42 04-11-07, 01:58 AM	Sometimes I think I should do a FAQ so that on any given week only one multiclassing/gestalt thread pops up, as opposed to the usual seven.