How do you feel about parrying? [Archive] - Wizards Community

How do you feel about parrying? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Cyanide300
02-21-07, 03:15 AM I'm going to be starting a new campaign soon and I'm thinking about using parrying rules. My general goal is to make combat last a little longer than the typical few rounds, and make low level characters (1st-5th) a little more survivable without making higher level characters too rediculously tough. And of course, I also want combat to be as much or more than it normally is. So I have a few questions for you experienced players/DMs.

As a player or DM, have you ever played a campaign with parrying rules? If so, please give a brief description.

What do you like about the way parrying impacts combat?

What don't you like about it?

Did it improve or degrade your overall game experience, and why?

Are there any other reasons I should or should not consider using parrying?

I greatly appriciate any well formed responses. Thanks in advance. :)
nabuchadnysar
02-21-07, 04:17 AM I would go with the old feel of the 2ed. First, when it is your turn you have to say how many attacks you will not use on your opponant, but instread will be used to parry. Then you can use them like a readied action to parry resonnable attacks (ok to a sword, but a tail slap? maybe with a shield. A sword wielded by a ogre? maybe not). For shield use the same rules has with shields attacks, just parry with the attack. Maybe give a +2 bonus because shields are bigger and its easier to parry. All the rules about full round actions and standrad actions still aply.

Second, how do you parry? Think reverse sunder. Simple as that. A roll to block a incoming attack.

To make it more official, you could say that only one attack can be use to parry in a turn, but with a feat, Parrying for example, you can use more then one attack per turn, and chose which one will be use.

Back in 2ed parrying became a vital part of combat, when we got the Fighters handbook. It lets players live and vilains to. Just make sure that the count of attacks is good and that they are declared before the attack is made.
hiryuu
02-22-07, 01:00 AM There already are parrying rules in the PH. They're called "fighting defensively" and "Combat Expertise."
The_Levitator
02-22-07, 01:20 AM There already are parrying rules in the PH. They're called "fighting defensively" and "Combat Expertise."

Excellent point! We've also found that adding the Opposed Defense Roll variant (DMG) not only tends to extend combat rounds, as a DM it gives me more information in describing combat. I know some people don't like the extra rolling, but I use DM Genie so it's all calculated with a single click. We don't use an actual parrying variant, but there are rolls that happen with the ODR variant that I use to describe when a parry occurs. It would be an easy way to add parrying (at least descriptively) without overhauling your system. :)
Krusk
02-23-07, 11:42 AM I think parrying and opposed defense rolls would be fun, until 6th level. Then people get multiple attacks and now instead of ok roll and do result. It becomes, "ive got 4 attacks, and so roll calculate, roll calculate, roll calculate ect" it would just slow the game down too much apst this point.

Up until then though it looks like a fun variant to try.
The_Levitator
02-23-07, 12:21 PM It becomes, "ive got 4 attacks, and so roll calculate, roll calculate, roll calculate ect" it would just slow the game down too much apst this point.

You are probably right about that Krusk! :) I forget about the actual process involved with playing D&D normally (with dice), because we've been using DM Genie for so long. One thing I will mention is that with DM Genie, having multiple attacks with the Opposed Defense roll doesn't slow things down at all (other than having to push the attack button an extra time or 2). I'm not sure where else you can find this, but I have the Opposed Defense Roll script for DM Genie. It automatically calculates the defender's AC, rolls D20 and adds modifiers, compares it to attacker's attack roll, and tells you whether the attack hit or missed. If anyone is using DM Genie and wants to take the Opposed Roll variant for a spin, drop me a message here or email me at thelevitator@gmail.com and I'll send ya the script!:D

We were using the Opposed Defense Roll variant when we were using dice, and it didn't seem to slow things down too much, especially after the group got used to "defending themselves" and rolling along with the attack roll. But I think that campaign was only at 4th or 5th level when we moved it over to DM Genie, so we never got to see how much the ODR slowed the game down once multiple attacks came into play.

If we were ever to go back to rolling dice, I'm almost convinced the group would still want to use the ODR, partly because they are so used to it, and I think partly because it gives them 1 more opportunity in combat to be involved. And DM's know how much their players love to feel involved in the game! :D
Illithid_Tentacles
02-23-07, 08:19 PM A parrying rule already exists. It's called Fighting Defensively. There are also options for people who want to be better at it, in the forms of Combat Expertise and Improved Expertise. No need to reinvent the wheel.
Krusk
02-24-07, 02:20 AM If you have Dm genie then you have no probelm using opposed defense rolls. It makes each round of combat and each attack suprising. Now any attack has a shot at hitting any opponent. I would love to be able to use this, but i havent saved enough for a laptop at the moment, so we are stuck in the plastic age with dice.
The_Levitator
02-24-07, 02:34 AM Don't feel bad Krusk, I stupidly stepped on my laptop a few weeks ago. I was sick, and working in bed. I set my laptop down on my floor and in my sickened haze, left it open and caught a nap. When I got up to take a leak, I forgot about the laptop on the floor and stepped right on the keyboard, basically crushing it! I have everything backed up on my desktop computer, but setting up for games now is a BIG pain in the butt. We use Maptools as a VT and I run my 2nd. monitor out to my HD projector and 8' screen. That was soooo much easier with my laptop. I have to basically move my main system to my living room to play and since I use my computer for high end video and music editing, it has a ton of peripherals so it takes forever. So now I'm frantically selling everything I can find on Ebay so that I can replace mine. One nice thing about an "analog" style of gameplay, it's kinda hard to break dice! :dice:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Cyanide300 02-21-07, 03:15 AM	I'm going to be starting a new campaign soon and I'm thinking about using parrying rules. My general goal is to make combat last a little longer than the typical few rounds, and make low level characters (1st-5th) a little more survivable without making higher level characters too rediculously tough. And of course, I also want combat to be as much or more than it normally is. So I have a few questions for you experienced players/DMs. As a player or DM, have you ever played a campaign with parrying rules? If so, please give a brief description. What do you like about the way parrying impacts combat? What don't you like about it? Did it improve or degrade your overall game experience, and why? Are there any other reasons I should or should not consider using parrying? I greatly appriciate any well formed responses. Thanks in advance. :)
nabuchadnysar 02-21-07, 04:17 AM	I would go with the old feel of the 2ed. First, when it is your turn you have to say how many attacks you will not use on your opponant, but instread will be used to parry. Then you can use them like a readied action to parry resonnable attacks (ok to a sword, but a tail slap? maybe with a shield. A sword wielded by a ogre? maybe not). For shield use the same rules has with shields attacks, just parry with the attack. Maybe give a +2 bonus because shields are bigger and its easier to parry. All the rules about full round actions and standrad actions still aply. Second, how do you parry? Think reverse sunder. Simple as that. A roll to block a incoming attack. To make it more official, you could say that only one attack can be use to parry in a turn, but with a feat, Parrying for example, you can use more then one attack per turn, and chose which one will be use. Back in 2ed parrying became a vital part of combat, when we got the Fighters handbook. It lets players live and vilains to. Just make sure that the count of attacks is good and that they are declared before the attack is made.
hiryuu 02-22-07, 01:00 AM	There already are parrying rules in the PH. They're called "fighting defensively" and "Combat Expertise."
The_Levitator 02-22-07, 01:20 AM	There already are parrying rules in the PH. They're called "fighting defensively" and "Combat Expertise." Excellent point! We've also found that adding the Opposed Defense Roll variant (DMG) not only tends to extend combat rounds, as a DM it gives me more information in describing combat. I know some people don't like the extra rolling, but I use DM Genie so it's all calculated with a single click. We don't use an actual parrying variant, but there are rolls that happen with the ODR variant that I use to describe when a parry occurs. It would be an easy way to add parrying (at least descriptively) without overhauling your system. :)
Krusk 02-23-07, 11:42 AM	I think parrying and opposed defense rolls would be fun, until 6th level. Then people get multiple attacks and now instead of ok roll and do result. It becomes, "ive got 4 attacks, and so roll calculate, roll calculate, roll calculate ect" it would just slow the game down too much apst this point. Up until then though it looks like a fun variant to try.
The_Levitator 02-23-07, 12:21 PM	It becomes, "ive got 4 attacks, and so roll calculate, roll calculate, roll calculate ect" it would just slow the game down too much apst this point. You are probably right about that Krusk! :) I forget about the actual process involved with playing D&D normally (with dice), because we've been using DM Genie for so long. One thing I will mention is that with DM Genie, having multiple attacks with the Opposed Defense roll doesn't slow things down at all (other than having to push the attack button an extra time or 2). I'm not sure where else you can find this, but I have the Opposed Defense Roll script for DM Genie. It automatically calculates the defender's AC, rolls D20 and adds modifiers, compares it to attacker's attack roll, and tells you whether the attack hit or missed. If anyone is using DM Genie and wants to take the Opposed Roll variant for a spin, drop me a message here or email me at thelevitator@gmail.com and I'll send ya the script!:D We were using the Opposed Defense Roll variant when we were using dice, and it didn't seem to slow things down too much, especially after the group got used to "defending themselves" and rolling along with the attack roll. But I think that campaign was only at 4th or 5th level when we moved it over to DM Genie, so we never got to see how much the ODR slowed the game down once multiple attacks came into play. If we were ever to go back to rolling dice, I'm almost convinced the group would still want to use the ODR, partly because they are so used to it, and I think partly because it gives them 1 more opportunity in combat to be involved. And DM's know how much their players love to feel involved in the game! :D
Illithid_Tentacles 02-23-07, 08:19 PM	A parrying rule already exists. It's called Fighting Defensively. There are also options for people who want to be better at it, in the forms of Combat Expertise and Improved Expertise. No need to reinvent the wheel.
Krusk 02-24-07, 02:20 AM	If you have Dm genie then you have no probelm using opposed defense rolls. It makes each round of combat and each attack suprising. Now any attack has a shot at hitting any opponent. I would love to be able to use this, but i havent saved enough for a laptop at the moment, so we are stuck in the plastic age with dice.
The_Levitator 02-24-07, 02:34 AM	Don't feel bad Krusk, I stupidly stepped on my laptop a few weeks ago. I was sick, and working in bed. I set my laptop down on my floor and in my sickened haze, left it open and caught a nap. When I got up to take a leak, I forgot about the laptop on the floor and stepped right on the keyboard, basically crushing it! I have everything backed up on my desktop computer, but setting up for games now is a BIG pain in the butt. We use Maptools as a VT and I run my 2nd. monitor out to my HD projector and 8' screen. That was soooo much easier with my laptop. I have to basically move my main system to my living room to play and since I use my computer for high end video and music editing, it has a ton of peripherals so it takes forever. So now I'm frantically selling everything I can find on Ebay so that I can replace mine. One nice thing about an "analog" style of gameplay, it's kinda hard to break dice! :dice: