How exactly does Bloodline levels work? [Archive] - Wizards Community

How exactly does Bloodline levels work? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
James2783
04-10-06, 03:46 AM Im kind of confused....Does it just suck up the Levels experience (like paying XP for item creation), or does it actually add to your character level...for instance , Lets say you are a sorcerer. on gaining 3rd level, if you took a bloodline level, would you just be a 2nd level character back at 1000 xp that fulfilled his requirement, or would you be a 2nd level Sorcerer with 1 bloodline level, for a Character Level of 3rd. Also if the latter is true, does the sorcerer get his spells per day and new spells as if he was a 3rd level sorcerer? Sorry I briefly read it in a friends book, and I dont have the book with me atm to read it over again.

Also , if it does count as a level, can you hit level 20 in your actual class??
Darth Sephiroth
04-10-06, 10:06 AM It counts as a level. (Sorcerer 8/Red Dragon Bloodline 1) or something like that, it is basically treated as a level adjustment except you can't buy it off, though a DM could work that out with the LA buy off stuff. I've added minor bloodlines to all the Sorcerers of one of my campaigns where they didn't have to pay the level cost for the Minor one and ther higher ones were treated as one less for purposes of levels.
kelvinaw273
04-10-06, 10:56 AM Bloodlines work kind of wierd. You get the stated ability/power/feat at the level shown on the table. In return you gain a kind of ECL level according to the table given at the points given. So say the table says you have to increment at say, 6th level. You gain all the normal abilities for your class(es) up to level 5, AND all the abilities given for the Bloodline levels up to level 5. At level 6, you gain nothing (unless your bloodline grants you an ability at level 6 you still get that). In effect, you don't level up until you have enough experience for level 7, just as if you were an ECL +1 character. At level 7, you gain a level normally.

That's it!
DrMorganes
04-10-06, 11:36 AM Not quite...

As noted, bloodlines are an oddball attempt to grant a PC some special racial abilities without using either a template or a flat racial level adjustment. They're easiest to understand if you treat "bloodline" as a special character class.

Just to be perfectly clear: Bloodlines are NOT a character class. However, in the following paragraphs I'll refer to the bloodline "class" because I've found it make the concept easier to understand.

So now we're talking about a Bloodlines as a special "class" which may only be specified at Level 1. This "class" grants a series of special "class" features at each character level. In return, you must take a level of Bloodline by a certain character level. How often your bloodline grants "class" features and how often you must take Bloodline levels is entirely depedant on how strong your Bloodline is: minor, moderate, or major. Minor bloodlines grant fewer "class" abilities, but require fewer bloodline levels. Moderate bloodlines strike a balance between features and bloodline levels, while Major bloodlines grant lots of Bloodline "class" features at a cost of more bloodline levels.

Bloodline "class" levels stack with other class levels to determine your character level. Just as a Rogue 2/Fighter 1 is a Level 3 character, so a Sorcerer 2/Red Dragon Minor Bloodline 1 is a Level 3 character. In both examples, each character needs the same amount of XP to reach Level 4: +3,000 XP, or an XP total of 6,000. Bloodline "class" levels MUST be taken BY a given Character Level in order to continue to receive your Bloodline "class" features AND avoid an XP penalty. If your bloodline strength dictates you must take your first Bloodline "class" level by Character Level 6, you can take it anytime you level up between Level 2 and Level 6, inclusive (that is, you can take your Bloodline "class" level AT level 6 and still meet the requirement).

So what do Bloodline "class" levels get you? Any features based on character level do increase, so you still get your Ability Score increases every 4 levels, your standard Feat every 3 levels, and max skill rank of Level+3. But beyond your bloodline "class" features you get nothing else. As in zip, zilch, nada. Why? Because the ONLY things granted by the Bloodline "class" are the "class" features. Bloodlines have no based Hit Die, no BAB progression, no skill points per levels, no Base Save Bonus increase, etc. If you're a caster, consider your Bloodline "class" levels to be a sort of Prestige Class: they stack with your caster class levels to determine your total Caster Level, increasing your spells per day and the like, but do not add to any other class features like familiar (or psicrystal) progression.
Soulburn84
04-10-06, 12:45 PM So what do Bloodline "class" levels get you? Any features based on character level do increase, so you still get your Ability Score increases every 4 levels, your standard Feat every 3 levels, and max skill rank of Level+3. But beyond your bloodline "class" features you get nothing else. As in zip, zilch, nada. Why? Because the ONLY things granted by the Bloodline "class" are the "class" features. Bloodlines have no based Hit Die, no BAB progression, no skill points per levels, no Base Save Bonus increase, etc. If you're a caster, consider your Bloodline "class" levels to be a sort of Prestige Class: they stack with your caster class levels to determine your total Caster Level, increasing your spells per day and the like, but do not add to any other class features like familiar (or psicrystal) progression.
This bit isn't completely correct. It states in the examples that you do not gain extra spells or spell slots. Bloodline levels only increase you caster level, which would increase: Duration of spells, damage on spells and your chance to penetrate spell resistance. Also some class abilities do increase such as: Paladin's lay on hands, Cleric's turn/rebuke undead, Monk's stunning fist DC, Druid's animal companion and Wizard's familiar bonuses.

Include the character's bloodline level when calculating any character ability based on his class levels
James2783
04-10-06, 03:07 PM So if you are major and you are a level 20 character...with 3 levels in bloodline and 17 levels in sorcerer...would you be considered epic if you got to 20 sorcerer/3 Bloodline?
Mist of Shadows
04-10-06, 03:37 PM yes, you're epic

It's a character class that doesn't give you any hd, skills or saves increases. or base attack.

Though I have a question if you delay taking the class until epic. You take a 20% penalty but do you get epic saves and epic base attack?

The reasoning is that the epic stuff replaces your classes normal base attack and base saves.

It's a bit weird even the author dosen't quite know what to do with it. Read his web page on the bloodlines. As for the rules in the book just treat it as a character class with no bab, saves or skills or hd.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
James2783 04-10-06, 03:46 AM	Im kind of confused....Does it just suck up the Levels experience (like paying XP for item creation), or does it actually add to your character level...for instance , Lets say you are a sorcerer. on gaining 3rd level, if you took a bloodline level, would you just be a 2nd level character back at 1000 xp that fulfilled his requirement, or would you be a 2nd level Sorcerer with 1 bloodline level, for a Character Level of 3rd. Also if the latter is true, does the sorcerer get his spells per day and new spells as if he was a 3rd level sorcerer? Sorry I briefly read it in a friends book, and I dont have the book with me atm to read it over again. Also , if it does count as a level, can you hit level 20 in your actual class??
Darth Sephiroth 04-10-06, 10:06 AM	It counts as a level. (Sorcerer 8/Red Dragon Bloodline 1) or something like that, it is basically treated as a level adjustment except you can't buy it off, though a DM could work that out with the LA buy off stuff. I've added minor bloodlines to all the Sorcerers of one of my campaigns where they didn't have to pay the level cost for the Minor one and ther higher ones were treated as one less for purposes of levels.
kelvinaw273 04-10-06, 10:56 AM	Bloodlines work kind of wierd. You get the stated ability/power/feat at the level shown on the table. In return you gain a kind of ECL level according to the table given at the points given. So say the table says you have to increment at say, 6th level. You gain all the normal abilities for your class(es) up to level 5, AND all the abilities given for the Bloodline levels up to level 5. At level 6, you gain nothing (unless your bloodline grants you an ability at level 6 you still get that). In effect, you don't level up until you have enough experience for level 7, just as if you were an ECL +1 character. At level 7, you gain a level normally. That's it!
DrMorganes 04-10-06, 11:36 AM	Not quite... As noted, bloodlines are an oddball attempt to grant a PC some special racial abilities without using either a template or a flat racial level adjustment. They're easiest to understand if you treat "bloodline" as a special character class. Just to be perfectly clear: Bloodlines are NOT a character class. However, in the following paragraphs I'll refer to the bloodline "class" because I've found it make the concept easier to understand. So now we're talking about a Bloodlines as a special "class" which may only be specified at Level 1. This "class" grants a series of special "class" features at each character level. In return, you must take a level of Bloodline by a certain character level. How often your bloodline grants "class" features and how often you must take Bloodline levels is entirely depedant on how strong your Bloodline is: minor, moderate, or major. Minor bloodlines grant fewer "class" abilities, but require fewer bloodline levels. Moderate bloodlines strike a balance between features and bloodline levels, while Major bloodlines grant lots of Bloodline "class" features at a cost of more bloodline levels. Bloodline "class" levels stack with other class levels to determine your character level. Just as a Rogue 2/Fighter 1 is a Level 3 character, so a Sorcerer 2/Red Dragon Minor Bloodline 1 is a Level 3 character. In both examples, each character needs the same amount of XP to reach Level 4: +3,000 XP, or an XP total of 6,000. Bloodline "class" levels MUST be taken BY a given Character Level in order to continue to receive your Bloodline "class" features AND avoid an XP penalty. If your bloodline strength dictates you must take your first Bloodline "class" level by Character Level 6, you can take it anytime you level up between Level 2 and Level 6, inclusive (that is, you can take your Bloodline "class" level AT level 6 and still meet the requirement). So what do Bloodline "class" levels get you? Any features based on character level do increase, so you still get your Ability Score increases every 4 levels, your standard Feat every 3 levels, and max skill rank of Level+3. But beyond your bloodline "class" features you get nothing else. As in zip, zilch, nada. Why? Because the ONLY things granted by the Bloodline "class" are the "class" features. Bloodlines have no based Hit Die, no BAB progression, no skill points per levels, no Base Save Bonus increase, etc. If you're a caster, consider your Bloodline "class" levels to be a sort of Prestige Class: they stack with your caster class levels to determine your total Caster Level, increasing your spells per day and the like, but do not add to any other class features like familiar (or psicrystal) progression.
Soulburn84 04-10-06, 12:45 PM	So what do Bloodline "class" levels get you? Any features based on character level do increase, so you still get your Ability Score increases every 4 levels, your standard Feat every 3 levels, and max skill rank of Level+3. But beyond your bloodline "class" features you get nothing else. As in zip, zilch, nada. Why? Because the ONLY things granted by the Bloodline "class" are the "class" features. Bloodlines have no based Hit Die, no BAB progression, no skill points per levels, no Base Save Bonus increase, etc. If you're a caster, consider your Bloodline "class" levels to be a sort of Prestige Class: they stack with your caster class levels to determine your total Caster Level, increasing your spells per day and the like, but do not add to any other class features like familiar (or psicrystal) progression. This bit isn't completely correct. It states in the examples that you do not gain extra spells or spell slots. Bloodline levels only increase you caster level, which would increase: Duration of spells, damage on spells and your chance to penetrate spell resistance. Also some class abilities do increase such as: Paladin's lay on hands, Cleric's turn/rebuke undead, Monk's stunning fist DC, Druid's animal companion and Wizard's familiar bonuses. Include the character's bloodline level when calculating any character ability based on his class levels
James2783 04-10-06, 03:07 PM	So if you are major and you are a level 20 character...with 3 levels in bloodline and 17 levels in sorcerer...would you be considered epic if you got to 20 sorcerer/3 Bloodline?
Mist of Shadows 04-10-06, 03:37 PM	yes, you're epic It's a character class that doesn't give you any hd, skills or saves increases. or base attack. Though I have a question if you delay taking the class until epic. You take a 20% penalty but do you get epic saves and epic base attack? The reasoning is that the epic stuff replaces your classes normal base attack and base saves. It's a bit weird even the author dosen't quite know what to do with it. Read his web page on the bloodlines. As for the rules in the book just treat it as a character class with no bab, saves or skills or hd.