I bought it! but the paragons... [Archive] - Wizards Community

I bought it! but the paragons... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
SolenVlos
03-13-05, 11:00 AM hurras for me, i finally got unearthed arcana.

the book is great, all right.
but there is one thing that´s is banging in my mind. aren´t the racials paragons overpowered?

I loved the Idea, but it seems too overpowered to me!!

what u think?
Count Arioch the 28th
03-13-05, 12:55 PM I consider them vastly underpowered compared to what you get from base classes. Sure, after three levels, you get +2 to one stat, but the first two levels are crap, and 3 levels with no calss features is a long time to wait.

In short, I can't see how they could possibly be overpowered at all.

That being said, the book has lots of options, most of which will alter the game balance somewhat. In fact, that's teh general idea, it has changes you can make if you want to alter the balance. Keep in mind that all the effects that you intend to include are within your comfort zone.
Tealgorthian
03-13-05, 02:15 PM I think the Human Paragon is pretty strong, with it's "Any Skill is a Class SKill Forever" abiltity, bonus feat, and +2 to any score, not to ment 2/3 spell casting, 6+Int Mod skill points, and infinate skill list.
Jaerom Darkwind
03-13-05, 10:04 PM They balance quite nicely with the core classes. Especially the barbarian or the cleric. True, they are balanced with the more powerful classes, but do you want them balanced with weaklings like the fighter? That's how you make sure things never get used.
HailSpork
03-15-05, 12:54 AM I consider them vastly underpowered compared to what you get from base classes. Sure, after three levels, you get +2 to one stat, but the first two levels are crap, and 3 levels with no calss features is a long time to wait.

When you say class features, are you talking about features of the paragon class, or delay in turning/smiting/sneak attack/etc?

Most of them get +2 levels of spellcasting, +2 to an attribute, and a few nifty (but far from overpowering) class abilities.
I find them to be a little overpowering. While they aren't much more powerful than most prestige classes, the fact that you can take them at level 1 says a lot.
I'm playing in a game where I built a wizard with levels 1,3,4 of human paragon; I have a bunch of cross-class skills (and an always-maxed out tumble), an extra feat, an even scarier will save, and +2 int for the sacrifice of 1 level of spellcasting and some familiar progression. I even have a slightly higher BAB.
Eldurin
03-17-05, 01:42 AM I find the idea of paragon classes intriguing. One movement with the 3.x ruleset is racial development. The way I see things characters have two routes open to them now: developing a class as a 'career', or their 'race'. Particularly monsterous creatures (such as dragons) have the latter as sensible option open to them. The dragon disciple, acolyte of the skin, elemental savant, alienist, Green Star Adept and so on are examples of development that lie somewhere between class and race.

Nevertheless for straightforward characters there was very little in the way of racial development until paragon classes came into play. I think paragon classes are strong, but not overpowered. Especially with only three levels, they seem to me to take the void in terms of which other classes gain monsterous levels.
HailSpork
03-17-05, 02:15 PM Personally, if I incorporate racial paragons into my game, it will be as a reward; You can't just take a level in paragon, you have to earn it (moreso than a normal level, that is)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SolenVlos 03-13-05, 11:00 AM	hurras for me, i finally got unearthed arcana. the book is great, all right. but there is one thing that´s is banging in my mind. aren´t the racials paragons overpowered? I loved the Idea, but it seems too overpowered to me!! what u think?
Count Arioch the 28th 03-13-05, 12:55 PM	I consider them vastly underpowered compared to what you get from base classes. Sure, after three levels, you get +2 to one stat, but the first two levels are crap, and 3 levels with no calss features is a long time to wait. In short, I can't see how they could possibly be overpowered at all. That being said, the book has lots of options, most of which will alter the game balance somewhat. In fact, that's teh general idea, it has changes you can make if you want to alter the balance. Keep in mind that all the effects that you intend to include are within your comfort zone.
Tealgorthian 03-13-05, 02:15 PM	I think the Human Paragon is pretty strong, with it's "Any Skill is a Class SKill Forever" abiltity, bonus feat, and +2 to any score, not to ment 2/3 spell casting, 6+Int Mod skill points, and infinate skill list.
Jaerom Darkwind 03-13-05, 10:04 PM	They balance quite nicely with the core classes. Especially the barbarian or the cleric. True, they are balanced with the more powerful classes, but do you want them balanced with weaklings like the fighter? That's how you make sure things never get used.
HailSpork 03-15-05, 12:54 AM	I consider them vastly underpowered compared to what you get from base classes. Sure, after three levels, you get +2 to one stat, but the first two levels are crap, and 3 levels with no calss features is a long time to wait. When you say class features, are you talking about features of the paragon class, or delay in turning/smiting/sneak attack/etc? Most of them get +2 levels of spellcasting, +2 to an attribute, and a few nifty (but far from overpowering) class abilities. I find them to be a little overpowering. While they aren't much more powerful than most prestige classes, the fact that you can take them at level 1 says a lot. I'm playing in a game where I built a wizard with levels 1,3,4 of human paragon; I have a bunch of cross-class skills (and an always-maxed out tumble), an extra feat, an even scarier will save, and +2 int for the sacrifice of 1 level of spellcasting and some familiar progression. I even have a slightly higher BAB.
Eldurin 03-17-05, 01:42 AM	I find the idea of paragon classes intriguing. One movement with the 3.x ruleset is racial development. The way I see things characters have two routes open to them now: developing a class as a 'career', or their 'race'. Particularly monsterous creatures (such as dragons) have the latter as sensible option open to them. The dragon disciple, acolyte of the skin, elemental savant, alienist, Green Star Adept and so on are examples of development that lie somewhere between class and race. Nevertheless for straightforward characters there was very little in the way of racial development until paragon classes came into play. I think paragon classes are strong, but not overpowered. Especially with only three levels, they seem to me to take the void in terms of which other classes gain monsterous levels.
HailSpork 03-17-05, 02:15 PM	Personally, if I incorporate racial paragons into my game, it will be as a reward; You can't just take a level in paragon, you have to earn it (moreso than a normal level, that is)