Post/Author/DateTime	Post
boozerker 01-01-08, 12:26 AM	;) Ok, might've been any future edition, couldn't really tell. Hello, this thread will be updated here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=997353). In fact each will be a series building on the last. Contributor names will grow along with each updated form. It was a long dream, and in it friends and I played D&D.* The game we played is far different than 3e and even the 4e previews. Yet amazingly, lots of its mechanics translate easily to the current game's. Again I emphasize: its core mechanics are totally different, so alien yet D&D-ish, and thus I'll need help remembering. But more on that later. For now, I'm going to post a few bits I managed to translate into 3.5. Afterwards, you'll be treated to the mechanics as they appeared in the dream. Note: I didn't glimpse who ~Dn~ is operated by in the future. Let's begin with an easy method ~Dn~ used for handling randomized flying objects/projectiles. It's in the Optionals section. (Certain ~book~ areas end with a "Optionals [page number]" tag, which means you'll find ((in the end-of-book Optionals)) an alternate rule or two, mechanics for increased realism, or flavorful extras) Dispersal rolling: This method uses dice placement. What's it mean? You roll a handful of dice, noting where they settle in relation to each other. Now on to the basics. Draw a grid with an even number of squares in each row. That represents the affected area. The number of rows tells us the dice type and how many die to use; the dice placement tells us which squares got hit. So if you have a 8x8 grid, roll 8d8 dice. The farthest one to the left affects your 1st row, the second farthest affects the 2nd row, and so on, and each die's value tells you what square gets hit by an object. (1 = 1st square up, 2 = 2nd square up, etc) If you want extra dimension, for example determining which direction the object came from, then make half the dice a different color. So blue comes from the left, black from the front. If needed, add a third color for the right side and even a fourth one for the rear. Or, use the different colors for random object sizes. Get creative. *from here on, we'll refer to that game as ~Dn~
boozerker 01-01-08, 12:27 AM	You might've noticed a few of the ~Dn~ system's patterns by now. One is the use of dice placement for easing the workload in handling complex situations. The ~book~ had continued on with scattering objects, let's say flinging a handfull of coins on a smooth, expansive floor. Or whipping a bag of pebbles around that scatter when the bag rips. How many coins immeditely fall over nearby, and which ones continue rolling -- and how far away? Dispersal rolling handles those, but the formula isn't as translatable to 3.5. So we'll come back to it later. Another pattern is designation of certain mechnics to the Optionals section in the ~book~. Which seems to have beneficial effects. First, all the "once in a while" mechanics (and those which fewer player groups enjoy/use) don't clutter the main rules. In the dream, players had contributed many Optionals through the web. The difference between what is an Optional and what's not will become clearer as we progress. Next, we have a simple mechanical bit from the main rules (not the Optionals). Weapon sizing: "____-fitting weapon". A large-fitting broadsword fits a Large creature. A fine-fitting broadsword fits a Fine creature. Resizing the weapon increases its fit by however many categories specified. For example, a regular/base dagger (from here on, "just a dagger") is sized for a medium creature. If that dagger's size would magically increase one size category, it becomes large-fitting (it's now sized for a large creature, so for medium creatures the dagger would become the size of a *base* short sword). Optional: Adapted fit. A non-fitting weapon often approximates the size/form of another weapon -- enough to be wielded as such. For example, a sword in the hands of a huge creature might instead act as a huge-fitting dagger. In such cases, treat the weapon as partially improvised (-1 penalty on attacks with it). Sometimes you might desire adjusting this to half-improvised (-2 on attacks), or even mostly improvised (-3 to attacks), if the adapted fit would be somehow odd/awkward.
boozerker 01-01-08, 12:27 AM	Although they're part of a broader class in ~Dn~, our 3.5 monks can use this next mechanic. The items are just there as examples, I'm not sure if they even appeared in the dream. And before you wonder -- no, it's not overpowered. (at least not in ~Dn~) Monk weapons (useful): Monks can use monk weapons as if unarmed, if their appropriate body part is free to move. So a Necklace of Natural Attacks (from Savage Species) and Amulet of Mighty Fists give their bonus to monk weapons wielded by monks.
boozerker 01-06-08, 03:36 PM	Size-fitting doesn't just apply to weapons. It's a way to track "size relativity" of practically anything. A collosal-fit doorway is sized for entry by collosal creatures. A diminutive-fit town has its dimensions set for a diminutive population. A fine-fit bookcase isn't even practical for a small creature. Even an entire world can itself be a size-fitting (the standard world is fit to medium creatures). And now, this next ~Dn~ entry is the closest translation to 3.5 possible (like the others). Defensive Casting: DC = 10 + Opponent's Base Attack Bonus. In the dream, it's not obvious if some things appeared in the ~books~ or came from a different source. One such instance is a helpful addition for monster entries: they'd place a silhoutte of each monster next to a silhouette of a medium size humanoid, with one such image per monster entry, so that the DM can print it for showing players exactly how big (or tiny) a monster is. It could've been a ~website~ gaming aid, or perhaps the book did have it next to the main artwork -- smaller by comparion, yet effective. Soon: a helpful ~website~ utilty.
HarlequinHelsing 01-06-08, 03:47 PM	Hmm...Interesting. Dispersal rolling would be awesome in a campaign where the PC's castle is under siege, to determine where catapult stones land. Looks like that part works pretty well, two differently-colored dice would be best though, that's how d% works. Useful monk weapons is excellent. This means I can transfer Axiomatic Ki Strike to any monk weapon I'm wielding, right? Adapted fit's also a good idea. Degrees of improvisation is an idea that I'll almost certainly explore in my revision, if I can ever get time to work on it again. Defensive Casting seems like it'd work well, but I'm not sure since I'm not familiar with the rules currently in place for defensive casting. Looks good. Can't wait to see more.
boozerker 01-08-08, 07:43 PM	Thank you. Hmm...Interesting. Dispersal rolling would be awesome in a campaign where the PC's castle is under siege, to determine where catapult stones land. It's also useful for effects that alternate unpredictably between squares. Just pick an effect (maybe lightning strikes or randomly dropping floor tiles) choose the grid dimensions roll all the die together and immediately know which squares get "hit". Looks like that part works pretty well, two differently-colored dice would be best though, that's how d% works. Also, going by odds/evens is an OK substitute if all your dice are one color, but it is slightly less random. Useful monk weapons is excellent. This means I can transfer Axiomatic Ki Strike to any monk weapon I'm wielding, right? You get all the benefits, exept the adamantine quality doesn't transfer to slashing-only weapons (or those wielded as a slashing at the time). Piercing and bludgeoning is the way to go vs. Adamantine. But that's judging from how the "useful monk weapons (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14713227&postcount=3)" ability operates (yeah, it's not a feat). It's not really named "Useful monk weapons" :) But the ability is only good for melee. And you need a full round to harness your energies for transfer through the weapon. Otherwise, in a surprise encounter, you'll have to rely on your unarmed skills. Adapted fit's also a good idea. Degrees of improvisation is an idea that I'll almost certainly explore in my revision, if I can ever get time to work on it again. Hey, you might want to just start posting the basics (4e is soon arriving, you know. Or wait, then borrow from it ;)) Defensive Casting seems like it'd work well, but I'm not sure since I'm not familiar with the rules currently in place for defensive casting. 3.5's defensive casting is DC 15 + spell level. Which is OK, but doesn't seem to account for variations in the opponent's fighting skill. So 3.5 defensive casting gives you the same opportunity vs. a commoner as vs. an epic level barbarian. ~Dn~'s mechanics were somewhere near DC = 10 + attacker's BAB, yet a more accurate translation might be DC = 10 + 1/2 attacker's BAB + 1/2 spell level. Note: the defensive casting mechanic is useful elsewehere too. For tumbling, the DC pits the opponents's BAB against your tumble skill. DC = 10 + opponent's BAB. Looks good. Can't wait to see more. I appreciate your input. See the next post.
boozerker 01-08-08, 07:44 PM	Spell system: The closest the spells translate to...is a point system (however, a lot of spells wouldn't even use them after a while). The conversion to 3.5 goes somewhat as follows. Spellcasters get 20 mana -- that's never alterable. Each spell's level becomes its mana cost. (3rd level = 3 mana) Mana regenerates 1 per hour, 2 if sleeping past an hour, or all with a full-rested sleep. Casting the same spell in the same day (or within eight hours) costs 1 cumulative mana each. For metamagic feats, simply convert the increased spell slot to its relevant mana count. Shrinking mana costs - At caster level 5, your spells cost 1 less. Repeat this every five caster levels. - So by 20th caster level, 9th-level spells cost 5 mana, and 2nd level spells cost 0 mana. Mana costs never go below zero. - A sorcerer's spells cost 1 less immediately (at caster level "0"). - A bard's shrinking mana costs are delayed five levels (until caster level 10). - Multi-classed arcane caster levels combine for purposes of shrinking mana costs, and likewise with divine caster levels. A wizard's unprepared spells cost 5 more. A wizard that loses a spell book makes a DC 10 Knowledge: Arcana check each day. Failure increases the mana cost of unprepared spells from that book by 1. Each week the spellbook is gone adds +1 to the Knowledge: Arcana DC. Optionals: The DM can adjust magic-use by simply lowering or raising mana costs. But shrinking mana costs can be adjusted too. The following Optional does just that (if you wish a lower power level). - At caster level 5, only those spells you can already cast now cost 1 less. Repeat this every five caster levels. - So by 20th caster level, 9th-level spells cost 1 less mana, 5th-level spells cost 3 less mana, and 2nd level spells cost 4 less.
nonsi 01-09-08, 07:18 AM	Spell system: The closest the spells translate to...is a point system (however, a lot of spells wouldn't even use them after a while). The conversion to 3.5 goes somewhat as follows. Spellcasters get 20 mana -- that's never alterable. Each spell's level becomes its mana cost. (3rd level = 3 mana) Mana regenerates 1 per hour, 2 if sleeping past an hour, or all with a full-rested sleep. Casting the same spell in the same day (or within eight hours) costs 1 cumulative mana each. For metamagic feats, simply convert the increased spell slot to its relevant mana count. Shrinking mana costs - At caster level 5, your spells cost 1 less. Repeat this every five caster levels. - So by 20th caster level, 9th-level spells cost 5 mana, and 2nd level spells cost 0 mana. Mana costs never go below zero. - A sorcerer's spells cost 1 less immediately (at caster level "0"). - A bard's shrinking mana costs are delayed five levels (until caster level 10). - Multi-classed arcane caster levels combine for purposes of shrinking mana costs, and likewise with divine caster levels. A wizard's unprepared spells cost 5 more. A wizard that loses a spell book makes a DC 10 Knowledge: Arcana check each day. Failure increases the mana cost of unprepared spells from that book by 1. Each week the spellbook is gone adds +1 to the Knowledge: Arcana DC. Optionals: The DM can adjust magic-use by simply lowering or raising mana costs. But shrinking mana costs can be adjusted too. The following Optional does just that (if you wish a lower power level). - At caster level 5, only those spells you can already cast now cost 1 less. Repeat this every five caster levels. - So by 20th caster level, 9th-level spells cost 1 less mana, 5th-level spells cost 3 less mana, and 2nd level spells cost 4 less. A very nice approach to simplify things, but I notice several problems at 1st glance: 1. ZERO-level spells are available indefinitely from level 1 - is this a part of what you intended ? 2. By 15th level you can cast 3rd-level spells indefinitely (4th at level 20). 3. Some spalls are available even when your Mana pool is dry. 4. Mana points don't reflect the caster's level in any way. 5. What about Bards, Duskblades, Paladins, Rangers etc (Mana pool & cost) ? 6. Indefinite memory, limited only by the (in)availability of the spellbook. 7. What about Warlocks ? Note: The optional rule is not necessary balanc-wise. Even though a 17th level Wizard has access to 3 9th-level spells, utilizing his full potential would limit him to a handfull of spells from levels 4/5/6 and then limit his access to 3rd-level and below.
Riplox 01-09-08, 08:44 AM	1. ZERO-level spells are available indefinitely from level 1 - is this a part of what you intended ? Not true. If you read carefully, he imposes a cumulative +1 mana cost on all repeated spells within an 8 hour period. Thus, you can only cast 6 of the same zero level spell in day before you don't have enough mana to cast it again. 0 mana for the 1st one, 5 mana for the 6th one. This applies to all spells. 2. By 15th level you can cast 3rd-level spells indefinitely (4th at level 20). Read above response. 3. Some spalls are available even when your Mana pool is dry. Only if you haven't cast it yet for that day. 4. Mana points don't reflect the caster's level in any way. Nope, but the reduction in spell cost does. 5. What about Bards, Duskblades, Paladins, Rangers etc (Mana pool & cost) ? I'm thinking it would stay the same.
darokinblade 01-09-08, 10:48 AM	I like the mana pool system. Although I might suggest a more frequent deduction in cost than every 5 levels, perhaps every 3 or 4. While being able to cast your first fireball for free at 15th level is nice, normally a wizard of that level can cast 4 first, 4 second, etc to level 5, plus lower amounts of higher levels, for a total of 30 spells per day. Also, you talk about prepared spells per day. Does that suggest that wizards still have a limit of spells prepared? Meaning that the wizard prepares a given spell that day like normal, and then in order to cast them it costs mana to cast from that list? Or can they cast any spell from their spellbook?
boozerker 01-10-08, 01:44 AM	1. ZERO-level spells are available indefinitely from level 1 - is this a part of what you intended ? Each identical casting of a spell costs 1 more than the previous one, if cast within the same day (or eight hours). 4. Mana points don't reflect the caster's level in any way. You still have to qualify for casting spells of a base mana cost. Just follow the normal d20 spell casting progressions. 5. What about Bards, Duskblades, Paladins, Rangers etc (Mana pool & cost) ? Bards benefit from shrinking mana costs starting at 10th level. (Bards get a five caster-levels delay) Paladins, rangers and those with similar progressions benefit from shrinking mana costs starting at 15th level. (a ten caster-levels delay) Since the 3.5 Clerics's spell progression is a bit oddball-ish, we'll give it a class feature that reduces its early spellcasting output. Rising mana costs: A cleric's spells each costs 1 additional mana until caster level 5 (at which this class feature disappears). Each domain spell beyond the first that a cleric casts is treated as unprepared. So, there are no domain spells per day limit, but at a heavy 5+ mana cost for extras. Clerics don't swap healing spells for prepared ones. That gives you two choices: either use the PHB's spell levels (and relevant mana costs), or dump them entirely and switch to the methods below. Healing. When casting a healing spell, choose a number up to a spell level you're able to cast. Heal that many 1d8 points of damage + 1 point per caster level (maximum 5 x the chosen number). The spell's mana cost is the number you chose. The above method condenses all your healing spells into one, and you pay 1 more for extra castings regardless of amount healed. You also benefit from shrinking mana costs. Mass healing. Same as Healing, except give -5 to your chosen number before rolling that many 1d8, but still healing 1 point per caster level (max 5 x your full chosen number). That condenses your mass healing spells. Ok, back to rangers and paladins. Their "spells" function as spell-like and/or supernatural abilities in ~Dn~ games -- though still costing mana. Paladins and rangers aren't spellcasters but do use the shrinking mana progression for those abilities. As for Duskblades, I'm not familiar with that class, and ~Dn~ often uses different names for archetypes, yet even if they had one, we didn't play every class in the dream. ;) 6. Indefinite memory, limited only by the (in)availability of the spellbook. Losing familiarity with spells causes them to be eventually forgotten, the arcane writings barely graspable. But since their mana costs rise quickly for unprepared spells, thus it's probably assumed that a Wizard either prepares spells to conserve mana, or that the spells glanced while preparing others keeps them in faint memory (but requires extra mana to shape). You have a valid point, though. I didn't mention it, but unprepared spells take longer to cast. In 3.5 terms, let's just say an extra move action. Thanks for reminding me. 7. What about Warlocks ? Those have a lot more variance in ~Dn~ since many classes have archetype trees. What's it mean? It's like feat trees except for classical/fantasy archetypes. For the Warlock concept of the 3.5 model, their invocations and eldritch blasts cost "0 mana [fixed]" -- so casting more in the same day costs no extra mana. Still, I'm not much familiar with the 3.5 ones. Do they even have a spell list? If so, find the class whose spell progression they most resemble and give the warlock those shrinking mana costs and relevant delays (in benefitting from them).
boozerker 01-10-08, 06:25 AM	In the ~Dn~ game, numbers often don't rise above 10, except for character levels obviously, treasure counts, and XP. From what I gathered, translating the ~system~'s XP near enough to 3.5 might divide all XP by 100. So a 1200 XP gain becomes ~12~ and a 500,000 base gold cost metamgic item needs ~200~ XP spent rather than 20,000. However, there are no XP costs in the ~Dn~ game. Add time + special mana costs. I like the mana pool system. Although I might suggest a more frequent deduction in cost than every 5 levels, perhaps every 3 or 4. The best translation of the ~Dn~ system to 3.5 uses lots of 1s and 5s. Easy to remember too, because it's usually obvious if the wrong number seems broken. Thus you'll see a mostly 1s and 5s system with any needed variations handled by class features or ability modifiers. Remember, you can lower the mana costs of all spells as the DM. While being able to cast your first fireball for free at 15th level is nice, normally a wizard of that level can cast 4 first, 4 second, etc to level 5, plus lower amounts of higher levels, for a total of 30 spells per day. A class feature would handle it. The easiest 3.5 fix is giving magic-users a class feature at the appropriate level. Class feature. Choose low spell levels (1-5) or high spell levels. Once per day, if you chose high levels, you may cast one non-epic spell from each of those levels for 0 fixed mana (but stll pay any unprepped spell penalties). If you chose otherwise, you may likewise cast five spells from each level. Also, you talk about prepared spells per day. Does that suggest that wizards still have a limit of spells prepared? Yes, just prepare 1 + Int modifier spells for a close enough ~Dn~ translation. Optionals: School specialization. Spells from a school you specialize in cost 1 less mana. You may cast spells from your restricted schools but they're always treated as if both unprepped and recast in the same day (even if not). Meaning that the wizard prepares a given spell that day like normal, and then in order to cast them it costs mana to cast from that list? Or can they cast any spell from their spellbook? Both. The prepared spells cost normal. Unprepared spells cost 5 more. Good for emergencies, but it will cost you. Working a lot so I'll post again later. Meanwhile, perhaps it's best if all spellcasters who prepare spells get Rising mana costs (see post # 11) their first five caster levels. It's a bit closer to 3.5 for beginning with fewer spells. Good dreams mates.
Darth_Serenous 01-14-08, 06:49 PM	I think in 5th Edition, they will be a At-will system. For those who thinks its impossible, look Mutants and Masterminds.