Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gaia 04-13-06, 04:21 PM	I was looking at the Unearthed Arcana Spell Points System and I think that it's completely broken for certain classes and underpowered for others. First of all, this system is extremley more powerful than the Spell Slots System, because of the flexibility (can use only high level spells and use lower level ones only when needed). That's why, IMO, they reduced the number of "spell points" that the most powerful spellcasting classes had before. For example, a 20th level Wizard had, with the Spell Slot System, 324 "spell points" (converting each spell slot into spell points, according to table 5-5 in Unearthed Arcana, p. 155). With the Spell Points System, the Wizard has only 232 spell points at 20th level. This is a good way to balance things. But then I saw the Sorcerer. It's completely underpowered with this system. First of all, the Wizard is now a spontaneous spellcaster, so there's no advantage for the Sorcerer. They tried to fix it by giving the Sorcerer more spell points per level, but the difference is soooooooo little, that there's almost no advantage there. No one would ever play a Sorcerer with this system. Second, the Druid and the Cleric, with the Spell Slots System, have more spell slots than the Wizard, but with the Spell Points System, the 3 of them have the same spell points, which takes away one of the advantages of the Druid and the Cleric (although many people say that they are overpowered classes, so MAYBE this isn't so bad). Finally, the Paladin, the Ranger and the Bard have almost the same spell points with the Spell Points System as with the Spell Slot System (again, converting the spell slots into spell points). This gives them a considerable advantage without any disadvantages, so they improve in power and efficiency, as the other classes remain the same. This unbalances things too. So, I changed the Spell Points System, so it would be, IMO, more balanced. Here it is: Wizard/Wu Jen (They remain the same. The second number only applies to specialized Wizards. These bonus spell points can only be spent in the bonus spells prepared from the specialized school.): 1st) 2+1 2nd) 3+1 3rd) 7+4 4th) 11+4 5th) 16+9 6th) 24+9 7th) 33+16 8th) 44+16 9th) 56+25 10th) 72+25 11th) 88+36 12th) 104+36 13th) 120+49 14th) 136+49 15th) 152+64 16th) 168+64 17th) 184+81 18th) 200+81 19th) 216+81 20th) 232+81 Sorcerer/Favored Soul/Shugenja: 1st) 5 2nd) 6 3rd) 7 4th) 18 5th) 21 6th) 39 7th) 48 8th) 73 9th) 85 10th) 119 11th) 135 12th) 171 13th) 185 14th) 221 15th) 234 16th) 271 17th) 283 18th) 321 19th) 334 20th) 348 Paladin/Ranger/Spellthief/Hexblade: 1st) 0 2nd) 0 3rd) 0 4th) 0 5th) 0 6th) 1 7th) 1 8th) 1 9th) 1 10th) 4 11th) 4 12th) 9 13th) 9 14th) 9 15th) 15 16th) 17 17th) 20 18th) 20 19th) 30 20th) 34 Cleric (the first number is the number of spell points they can spend in their normal spells, while the second is the one they can spend in Domain spells): 1st) 2+2 2nd) 3+2 3rd) 7+6 4th) 11+6 5th) 16+10 6th) 24+10 7th) 33+17 8th) 44+17 9th) 56+26 10th) 72+26 11th) 89+36 12th) 105+36 13th) 124+46 14th) 140+46 15th) 160+55 16th) 176+55 17th) 197+59 18th) 212+59 19th) 235+63 20th) 250+63 Druid: 1st) 2 2nd) 3 3rd) 7 4th) 11 5th) 16 6th) 24 7th) 33 8th) 44 9th) 56 10th) 72 11th) 89 12th) 105 13th) 124 14th) 140 15th) 160 16th) 176 17th) 197 18th) 212 19th) 235 20th) 250 Bard: 1st) 0 2nd) 0 3rd) 1 4th) 2 5th) 7 6th) 10 7th) 10 8th) 18 9th) 23 10th) 30 11th) 42 12th) 40 13th) 46 14th) 52 15th) 59 16th) 58 17th) 76 18th) 86 19th) 98 20th) 103 Warmage and Beguiler: 1st) 5 2nd) 6 3rd) 7 4th) 18 5th) 21 6th) 39 7th) 48 8th) 73 9th) 85 10th) 119 11th) 135 12th) 171 13th) 185 14th) 221 15th) 234 16th) 271 17th) 283 18th) 321 19th) 334 20th) 336 Spirit Shaman: 1st) 4 2nd) 5 3rd) 14 4th) 17 5th) 32 6th) 39 7th) 64 8th) 73 9th) 104 10th) 119 11th) 158 12th) 171 13th) 210 14th) 221 15th) 260 16th) 271 17th) 310 18th) 321 19th) 334 20th) 336 Assassin, Vigilante and Emissary of Barachiel: 1st) 0 2nd) 2 3rd) 3 4th) 7 5th) 10 6th) 19 7th) 24 8th) 36 9th) 43 10th) 49 Blackguard, Consecrated Harrier, Holy Liberator, Pious Templar, Temple Raider of Olidammara, Beloved of Valarian, Champion of Gwynharwyf, Slayer of Domiel, Vassal of Bahamut and Mortal Hunter: 1st) 0 2nd) 1 3rd) 2 4th) 5 5th) 6 6th) 10 7th) 11 8th) 18 9th) 21 10th) 26 Demonologist: 1st) 2 2nd) 6 3th) 14 4th) 24 5th) 30 6th) 39 7th) 45 8th) 51 9th) 54 10th) 59 Chameleon: 1st) 4 2nd) 9 3th) 13 4th) 22 5th) 26 6th) 42 7th) 55 8th) 69 9th) 85 10th) 105 Shadowcaster: 1st) 2 2nd) 2 3th) 5 4th) 5 5th) 10 6th) 10 7th) 27 8th) 27 9th) 35 10th) 35 11th) 45 12th) 45 13th) 87 14th) 87 15th) 93 16th) 93 17th) 100 18th) 100 19th) 100 20th) 100 Duskblade: 1st) 4 2nd) 5 3th) 6 4th) 7 5th) 13 6th) 16 7th) 23 8th) 26 9th) 36 10th) 45 11th) 55 12th) 61 13th) 73 14th) 81 15th) 90 16th) 98 17th) 110 18th) 117 19th) 132 20th) 143 Blighter/Apostle of Peace: 1st) 4 2nd) 5 3th) 8 4th) 17 5th) 33 6th) 56 7th) 86 8th) 119 9th) 182 10th) 241 Divine Crusader/Ur-priest: 1st) 0 2nd) 2 3th) 7 4th) 16 5th) 30 6th) 49 7th) 77 8th) 106 9th) 143 10th) 186 I based this whole process on the Wizard's Spell Points system form Unearthed Arcana. I'd really appreciate any suggestions, points of view or corrections.
AT-AT Assault 04-13-06, 05:26 PM	Yes, that is better than UA. It seems kinda of retarded that a Sorceror(under the normal slot system) gets 20 more spells per day(2 of each level) than the Wizard, yet in UA's spell point system he gets one more 9th level spell than the Wizard. So this has my full vote of confidence. Also, thanks, this will make my efforts of converting DnD to a point buy based system(rather than a level based system), MUCH easier.
AT-AT Assault 04-13-06, 06:13 PM	Just remembered something. How many extra points would a Wizard get for specializing in a school?
Yue Ryong 04-13-06, 08:03 PM	None. It goes into that in the UA description. They get to prepare an extra spell, but only from their chosen school. I think that the entire system badly underpowers spellcasters against Psionics anyway, as they have to spend as much to get full use out their powers, but are screwed over by the fact that abilities are capped still. I think spell points should be done, but you need to build the whole thing from the ground up, exactly as they did with Psionics. Of course, you can just re-flavour Psionics to be magic (or Chi maipulation, or Spirit Summoning or whatever takes your fancy), so it's all moot anyway.
Gaia 04-13-06, 09:38 PM	How many extra points would a Wizard get for specializing in a school? As Yue Ryong wrote, this is specified in the Unearthed Arcana rules, but you could use the modification I made with the Wizard and the Cleric, above. I think that the entire system badly underpowers spellcasters against Psionics anyway, as they have to spend as much to get full use out their powers, but are screwed over by the fact that abilities are capped still. I think spell points should be done, but you need to build the whole thing from the ground up, exactly as they did with Psionics. Of course, you can just re-flavour Psionics to be magic (or Chi maipulation, or Spirit Summoning or whatever takes your fancy), so it's all moot anyway. I've always been against Psionics. I like the concept, a lot, but it seems overpowered to me. But, with the Spell Points System it looks much more obvious, because of the huge difference between the quantity accessible of spell points and the one accessible of power points, not to mention the extra spell and power points for high ability scores. IMO, to make Psionics more balanced, they should be fixed. I don't know, maybe I'll modify them later.
AT-AT Assault 04-13-06, 09:46 PM	None. It goes into that in the UA description. They get to prepare an extra spell, but only from their chosen school.Ah, right. I forgot about that tidbit.
aotrscommander 08-03-06, 05:38 PM	I'm looking at a similar problem with regard to sorcerers myself and your solution is one possible avenue. I'm not quite using a spellpoint system as UA though. How did you derive the numbers in the tables for the other classes I presume the base is total up all the spell levels, but what modifications did you add to the classes you've changed? And, most importantly, as you've played it now, has it (a spontaneous casting environment) worked all right?