Injuries [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

Injuries [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Masterful_Norg
03-02-04, 11:13 PM How would you determine where a character was hit on the body after having been successfully attacked? Would the character make a reflex save to avoid being hit on specific areas of the body or would you randomly roll the area that was struck? This is one of the questions that both myself and a player of mine have considered.

I don't think there would be any relation between where a character was hit on the body and the result of the fortitude save to see if injury was sustained. The fortitude save simply determines how the character responded to being hit in a predetermined area.

I have noticed that should a level 1 wizard with 10 constitution receive a blow that would do 50 dammage under the old rules and require a DC of 25 Fortitude save to resist an injury under the new rules, he would fail most guaranteed. Furthermore, if you were to play with the house rule that failing a hit Fortitude save by 20 had a possibility of bringing the character to dieing status and then requiring that character to make a save in order not to die instantly, then this would somewhat resemble the massive dammage rules though the character's chances would be much improved (6.25% chance of death). We could then consider that any attack that would deal 5 times a living creature's constitution score in damage would completely obliterate the target (or alternately decapitate it) if it failed its fortitude saves. Under this situation the dammage number would be 10 or equal the example character's constitution. Perhaps a dammage number of five (half of the example character's constitution) would be enough to sever the character's limb? What do you think?
Masterful_Norg
03-02-04, 11:35 PM This is a tough thing to think about because normally in real life an attacker is able to decide where the enemy was struck and what kind of injury it was meant to be. With a slashing weapon it could range through cuts, gashes, severed limbs, decapitation and bisection. With a piercing weapon the injury would range through grazing wounds, impalement and perforation. Bludgeoning weapons would bruise, break and shatter while energy would singe, burn and incinerate. The damage dice and bonuses show how successful a character is in striking an opponent. Should greater success give the attacker a better choice on how the target was struck?

Should an opponent with a higher constitution not cut and burn as easily or just be able to withstand more injuries than others. Does a successful fortitude save to resist injury mean that the character was infact untouched, injured in some inconsequential way or injured, but able to tough it out?
Masterful_Norg
03-04-04, 02:06 AM Ouch! It seems that alot of people shy from this subject, but maybe I should change the name.

Ahem... :bump:
bushido11
03-08-04, 01:06 AM I've been playing Mutants & Masterminds for a bit now, which incorporates virtually the same system, so I'll try my best to shed some light on the matter of Injury results.

First off, if you're going to incorporate Injury rules into D&D, have armor give your characters a bonus to this injury save equal to about 3/4 its AC value (and for creatures with natural armor, use 1/2 its AC value as a bonus to injury saves). Once you do this, Injury results make a lot more sense, because wearing armor reduces the likelyhood of sustaining a serious injury, hence making it a bonus to Injury saves. (Personally, I'd make a fourth saving throw, Injury, and use that solely for sustaining injuries rather than using Fortitude, as this system places too much emphasis on Fortitude saves.)

Secondly, incorporate the Class Defense bonus rules (or a variation of them). Like this, the PCs can make up for the AC they're not getting from armor with the AC they are getting from their class. For creatures, incorporate a Defense Bonus due to their creature type and refer to the classes to find out which Defense Bonus progression would be most appropriate.

Now, if you were to make a successful Injury save, your character may have sustained a hit and gotten a bruise or cut, but it's just cosmetic and of no real consequence.

If you were to fail it by 1 thru 9, the GM is free to interpret what kind of injury the character sustained, though it wouldn't be one to put your character out of commission. More "hit" results would call for more bruises and cuts, the ones that do slow you down.

If you were to fail it by 10 or more, the hit got you good, either in or near a vital area (for lethal hits) or it has you counting birdies (for stun hits).

The beauty of this system is the amount of interpretation involved. And when using armor to add to injury saves, you can determine how much armor helps, if at all (which it should). Characters can still drop like flies on an unlucky injury save, so incorporate action points into it and have an additional use for them: by spending an action point, you can reroll an injury save if you failed by 10 or more.

Another thing I like about the Injury concept is the ease of making up your own Injury results. This is one I use:

- Successful Injury Save: no effect.
- Failed Injury Save (1-5): hit.
- Failed Injury Save (6-10): Half-round action only for next turn plus hit.
- Failed Injury Save (11-15): No action, no dodge bonus to AC (including DEX), and opponents get a +2 to hit you for next turn only plus 2 hits.
- Failed Injury Save (16-20): KO (nonlethal) or Disabled (lethal) plus 2 hits.
- Failed Injury Save (21-25): KO (nonlethal) or Dying (lethal) plus 2 hits.
- Failed Injury Save (26+): Instant death.

With the above table, characters last much longer, but failing by more than 10 can quickly rack up Injury save penalties, as you get 2 hits rather than one. Also, I added more varied results that injuries can cause.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Masterful_Norg 03-02-04, 11:13 PM	How would you determine where a character was hit on the body after having been successfully attacked? Would the character make a reflex save to avoid being hit on specific areas of the body or would you randomly roll the area that was struck? This is one of the questions that both myself and a player of mine have considered. I don't think there would be any relation between where a character was hit on the body and the result of the fortitude save to see if injury was sustained. The fortitude save simply determines how the character responded to being hit in a predetermined area. I have noticed that should a level 1 wizard with 10 constitution receive a blow that would do 50 dammage under the old rules and require a DC of 25 Fortitude save to resist an injury under the new rules, he would fail most guaranteed. Furthermore, if you were to play with the house rule that failing a hit Fortitude save by 20 had a possibility of bringing the character to dieing status and then requiring that character to make a save in order not to die instantly, then this would somewhat resemble the massive dammage rules though the character's chances would be much improved (6.25% chance of death). We could then consider that any attack that would deal 5 times a living creature's constitution score in damage would completely obliterate the target (or alternately decapitate it) if it failed its fortitude saves. Under this situation the dammage number would be 10 or equal the example character's constitution. Perhaps a dammage number of five (half of the example character's constitution) would be enough to sever the character's limb? What do you think?
Masterful_Norg 03-02-04, 11:35 PM	This is a tough thing to think about because normally in real life an attacker is able to decide where the enemy was struck and what kind of injury it was meant to be. With a slashing weapon it could range through cuts, gashes, severed limbs, decapitation and bisection. With a piercing weapon the injury would range through grazing wounds, impalement and perforation. Bludgeoning weapons would bruise, break and shatter while energy would singe, burn and incinerate. The damage dice and bonuses show how successful a character is in striking an opponent. Should greater success give the attacker a better choice on how the target was struck? Should an opponent with a higher constitution not cut and burn as easily or just be able to withstand more injuries than others. Does a successful fortitude save to resist injury mean that the character was infact untouched, injured in some inconsequential way or injured, but able to tough it out?
Masterful_Norg 03-04-04, 02:06 AM	Ouch! It seems that alot of people shy from this subject, but maybe I should change the name. Ahem... :bump:
bushido11 03-08-04, 01:06 AM	I've been playing Mutants & Masterminds for a bit now, which incorporates virtually the same system, so I'll try my best to shed some light on the matter of Injury results. First off, if you're going to incorporate Injury rules into D&D, have armor give your characters a bonus to this injury save equal to about 3/4 its AC value (and for creatures with natural armor, use 1/2 its AC value as a bonus to injury saves). Once you do this, Injury results make a lot more sense, because wearing armor reduces the likelyhood of sustaining a serious injury, hence making it a bonus to Injury saves. (Personally, I'd make a fourth saving throw, Injury, and use that solely for sustaining injuries rather than using Fortitude, as this system places too much emphasis on Fortitude saves.) Secondly, incorporate the Class Defense bonus rules (or a variation of them). Like this, the PCs can make up for the AC they're not getting from armor with the AC they are getting from their class. For creatures, incorporate a Defense Bonus due to their creature type and refer to the classes to find out which Defense Bonus progression would be most appropriate. Now, if you were to make a successful Injury save, your character may have sustained a hit and gotten a bruise or cut, but it's just cosmetic and of no real consequence. If you were to fail it by 1 thru 9, the GM is free to interpret what kind of injury the character sustained, though it wouldn't be one to put your character out of commission. More "hit" results would call for more bruises and cuts, the ones that do slow you down. If you were to fail it by 10 or more, the hit got you good, either in or near a vital area (for lethal hits) or it has you counting birdies (for stun hits). The beauty of this system is the amount of interpretation involved. And when using armor to add to injury saves, you can determine how much armor helps, if at all (which it should). Characters can still drop like flies on an unlucky injury save, so incorporate action points into it and have an additional use for them: by spending an action point, you can reroll an injury save if you failed by 10 or more. Another thing I like about the Injury concept is the ease of making up your own Injury results. This is one I use: - Successful Injury Save: no effect. - Failed Injury Save (1-5): hit. - Failed Injury Save (6-10): Half-round action only for next turn plus hit. - Failed Injury Save (11-15): No action, no dodge bonus to AC (including DEX), and opponents get a +2 to hit you for next turn only plus 2 hits. - Failed Injury Save (16-20): KO (nonlethal) or Disabled (lethal) plus 2 hits. - Failed Injury Save (21-25): KO (nonlethal) or Dying (lethal) plus 2 hits. - Failed Injury Save (26+): Instant death. With the above table, characters last much longer, but failing by more than 10 can quickly rack up Injury save penalties, as you get 2 hits rather than one. Also, I added more varied results that injuries can cause.