Injury saves [Archive] - Wizards Community

Injury saves [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Voila!
07-28-05, 04:13 AM The injury system presented in UA is an interesting idea, but as presented, I don't like it. The tying of your health to Fortitude saves puts too much reliance on the save, and it only seems appropriate to warrior-oriented campaigns, where you are likely to have a high Fort modifier. Also, this allows for little physical differentiation from one character to another, given the way Hit Dice can roll. Does anyone have any thoughts on how to improve it? I know some people have designed Injury saves to replace Fortitude, but none of them have actually said how they would go about it. Could someone post that?
mrurbanitesmiley
07-28-05, 05:10 AM Well, the 'personalization' that stems from rolling hit dice isnt' personalization at all, but rather making characters weaker than others.
Is it personalization for a fighter to pick "Skill Focus: Craft: Basketweaving"?
He would be in almost all cases worse than a fighter with a real feat, in the same way that a fighter with low HP will be worse than a fighter well rolled HP.
Would you suggest everyone rolling their feats, or skill point assignment?

Okay, enough badgering...
Stupid lack of badger smiley.

Anyway, I personally don't like the Injury save system, but on the other hand, I think it is actually more balanced towards wizards (Assuming everyone has equal constitution, unless you take less hits between healing sessions than your HD, i believe statistically, adding your Con bonus on a per hit basis is more beneficial to those with lower HD (or Fort Saves). I can't really prove it, except a Lvl 3 fighter w/ 12 Con and a Lvl 3 Wizard w/ 12 con. The fighter has 24 HP (on average), and a Fort save of 4 (I believe. I don't have my books, and it's too late for SRD). The Wizard has 12 HP, and a save of 2. If they both get hit 5 times, they would both take the same amount of damage, on average, but using the save system, the Wizard gets to apply his save 5 times (for 10) while the fighter applies his three times, (20). Thus, at 12 constitution, they scale the same (I just disproved myself...) Nevermind...

Edit: Not to mention great fortitude rocking the heck out of Toughness for wizards (Essentially 6 extra HD worth of 'effective damage protection')

Oh, and for Injury, maybe change the saves? A fireball doesn't care if you're tough enough to stand in it's way, it toasts you anyway, while you need to make a reflex save to soak damage from it (In addition to a reflex save to halve damage), While things that hurt your brain directly require a will save on the injury check
Ranger REG
07-28-05, 07:18 PM The injury system presented in UA is an interesting idea, but as presented, I don't like it. The tying of your health to Fortitude saves puts too much reliance on the save, and it only seems appropriate to warrior-oriented campaigns, where you are likely to have a high Fort modifier. Also, this allows for little physical differentiation from one character to another, given the way Hit Dice can roll. Does anyone have any thoughts on how to improve it? I know some people have designed Injury saves to replace Fortitude, but none of them have actually said how they would go about it. Could someone post that?
Actually, I partly like the Injury System (aka Mutant & Masterminds Damage Saving Throw, aka True20 Toughness Save). Guess I'm spoiled by such similar mechanics found in previously published non-d20 games (LUG's Star Trek has Resistance roll, for example).

I think what is lacking is another Save stat, like the Damage Saving Throw or Toughness Save (sources above). Since Constitution ties to your body's fitness (as well as the ability to take a lot of damage and keep ticking) and that Con modifies your Fortitude, WotC believe there is no need to make another Save stat.

What you could do is allow action point or something similar, to give Fortitude-lacking PC an edge when they sorely need it. Another is to allow them take Toughness feat multiple times, the +3 bonus now becomes more attractive now when you can apply it to your Injury saving throw, than applying the additional 3 points to your HP.
da beast
07-28-05, 09:39 PM give penalties to fortitude depending on injuries. I might do something like this:

3/4 health= -1 on fortitude saves
1/2 health= -3 on fortitude saves, must make concentration checks when casting spells (DC 10)
1/3 health= -5 on fortitude saves, must make concentration check when casting spells (DC 15)
1/5 health= -8 on fortitude saves, must make concentration check when casting spells (DC 20), must make balance check when walking at maximum speed during round (DC 5) and when running (DC 15)

But I perfer the standard so I probably wouldn't use that.
Voila!
08-12-05, 04:40 AM For the injury save, I was thinking it could pass as one of two ways, both of which involve adding your Constitution modifier.
1.) Convert the Hit Die into a progression, divided by 20, by which it steadily increases (d4 = +1/5 every level; d6 = +3/10 every level; d8 = +2/5 every level; d10 = +1/2 every level; d12 = +3/5 every level). In this way, there is still 5 "shades of ruggedness" as UA puts it, the differences just don't manifest themselves as clearly early on.
2.) Divide the save into 3 shades, based off of the generic classes in UA: warrior, expert, and spellcaster.
Any thoughts on that?
Voila!
08-20-05, 12:12 AM bump
3doorsfan
08-31-05, 03:30 AM i have a house rule that partly uses this system with action points

u may spend an action point to refute a wound (take no damage)

Fort save DC 15 + (damage dealt/5)
Ranger REG
08-31-05, 02:23 PM For the injury save, I was thinking it could pass as one of two ways, both of which involve adding your Constitution modifier.
1.) Convert the Hit Die into a progression, divided by 20, by which it steadily increases (d4 = +1/5 every level; d6 = +3/10 every level; d8 = +2/5 every level; d10 = +1/2 every level; d12 = +3/5 every level). In this way, there is still 5 "shades of ruggedness" as UA puts it, the differences just don't manifest themselves as clearly early on.
Is this to determine the Toughness Save Bonus for the Injury System? Or is that added to Fortitude saving throw to determine injury?
Voila!
08-31-05, 07:40 PM To determine Toughness save, as you put it.
Ranger REG
08-31-05, 08:57 PM Ah, just like the True20 System.

Perhaps I should recommend you try a demo of the Blue Rose Fast-Play Rules, found on following web site (follow the link):

http://bluerose.greenronin.com

Ignore the fluff if you're not into romantic fantasy genre, just the rules mechanics.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Voila! 07-28-05, 04:13 AM	The injury system presented in UA is an interesting idea, but as presented, I don't like it. The tying of your health to Fortitude saves puts too much reliance on the save, and it only seems appropriate to warrior-oriented campaigns, where you are likely to have a high Fort modifier. Also, this allows for little physical differentiation from one character to another, given the way Hit Dice can roll. Does anyone have any thoughts on how to improve it? I know some people have designed Injury saves to replace Fortitude, but none of them have actually said how they would go about it. Could someone post that?
mrurbanitesmiley 07-28-05, 05:10 AM	Well, the 'personalization' that stems from rolling hit dice isnt' personalization at all, but rather making characters weaker than others. Is it personalization for a fighter to pick "Skill Focus: Craft: Basketweaving"? He would be in almost all cases worse than a fighter with a real feat, in the same way that a fighter with low HP will be worse than a fighter well rolled HP. Would you suggest everyone rolling their feats, or skill point assignment? Okay, enough badgering... Stupid lack of badger smiley. Anyway, I personally don't like the Injury save system, but on the other hand, I think it is actually more balanced towards wizards (Assuming everyone has equal constitution, unless you take less hits between healing sessions than your HD, i believe statistically, adding your Con bonus on a per hit basis is more beneficial to those with lower HD (or Fort Saves). I can't really prove it, except a Lvl 3 fighter w/ 12 Con and a Lvl 3 Wizard w/ 12 con. The fighter has 24 HP (on average), and a Fort save of 4 (I believe. I don't have my books, and it's too late for SRD). The Wizard has 12 HP, and a save of 2. If they both get hit 5 times, they would both take the same amount of damage, on average, but using the save system, the Wizard gets to apply his save 5 times (for 10) while the fighter applies his three times, (20). Thus, at 12 constitution, they scale the same (I just disproved myself...) Nevermind... Edit: Not to mention great fortitude rocking the heck out of Toughness for wizards (Essentially 6 extra HD worth of 'effective damage protection') Oh, and for Injury, maybe change the saves? A fireball doesn't care if you're tough enough to stand in it's way, it toasts you anyway, while you need to make a reflex save to soak damage from it (In addition to a reflex save to halve damage), While things that hurt your brain directly require a will save on the injury check
Ranger REG 07-28-05, 07:18 PM	The injury system presented in UA is an interesting idea, but as presented, I don't like it. The tying of your health to Fortitude saves puts too much reliance on the save, and it only seems appropriate to warrior-oriented campaigns, where you are likely to have a high Fort modifier. Also, this allows for little physical differentiation from one character to another, given the way Hit Dice can roll. Does anyone have any thoughts on how to improve it? I know some people have designed Injury saves to replace Fortitude, but none of them have actually said how they would go about it. Could someone post that? Actually, I partly like the Injury System (aka Mutant & Masterminds Damage Saving Throw, aka True20 Toughness Save). Guess I'm spoiled by such similar mechanics found in previously published non-d20 games (LUG's Star Trek has Resistance roll, for example). I think what is lacking is another Save stat, like the Damage Saving Throw or Toughness Save (sources above). Since Constitution ties to your body's fitness (as well as the ability to take a lot of damage and keep ticking) and that Con modifies your Fortitude, WotC believe there is no need to make another Save stat. What you could do is allow action point or something similar, to give Fortitude-lacking PC an edge when they sorely need it. Another is to allow them take Toughness feat multiple times, the +3 bonus now becomes more attractive now when you can apply it to your Injury saving throw, than applying the additional 3 points to your HP.
da beast 07-28-05, 09:39 PM	give penalties to fortitude depending on injuries. I might do something like this: 3/4 health= -1 on fortitude saves 1/2 health= -3 on fortitude saves, must make concentration checks when casting spells (DC 10) 1/3 health= -5 on fortitude saves, must make concentration check when casting spells (DC 15) 1/5 health= -8 on fortitude saves, must make concentration check when casting spells (DC 20), must make balance check when walking at maximum speed during round (DC 5) and when running (DC 15) But I perfer the standard so I probably wouldn't use that.
Voila! 08-12-05, 04:40 AM	For the injury save, I was thinking it could pass as one of two ways, both of which involve adding your Constitution modifier. 1.) Convert the Hit Die into a progression, divided by 20, by which it steadily increases (d4 = +1/5 every level; d6 = +3/10 every level; d8 = +2/5 every level; d10 = +1/2 every level; d12 = +3/5 every level). In this way, there is still 5 "shades of ruggedness" as UA puts it, the differences just don't manifest themselves as clearly early on. 2.) Divide the save into 3 shades, based off of the generic classes in UA: warrior, expert, and spellcaster. Any thoughts on that?
Voila! 08-20-05, 12:12 AM	bump
3doorsfan 08-31-05, 03:30 AM	i have a house rule that partly uses this system with action points u may spend an action point to refute a wound (take no damage) Fort save DC 15 + (damage dealt/5)
Ranger REG 08-31-05, 02:23 PM	For the injury save, I was thinking it could pass as one of two ways, both of which involve adding your Constitution modifier. 1.) Convert the Hit Die into a progression, divided by 20, by which it steadily increases (d4 = +1/5 every level; d6 = +3/10 every level; d8 = +2/5 every level; d10 = +1/2 every level; d12 = +3/5 every level). In this way, there is still 5 "shades of ruggedness" as UA puts it, the differences just don't manifest themselves as clearly early on. Is this to determine the Toughness Save Bonus for the Injury System? Or is that added to Fortitude saving throw to determine injury?
Voila! 08-31-05, 07:40 PM	To determine Toughness save, as you put it.
Ranger REG 08-31-05, 08:57 PM	Ah, just like the True20 System. Perhaps I should recommend you try a demo of the Blue Rose Fast-Play Rules, found on following web site (follow the link): http://bluerose.greenronin.com Ignore the fluff if you're not into romantic fantasy genre, just the rules mechanics.